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post #11 of 21 Old 12-01-2009, 02:48 PM
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My vet suggest I worm only 4 times a year. (I still do 6, im paranoid.) my horses don't show and we don't really have any horses moving around. Its just my mare, weanling and a retired brood. When I board with alot of horses I worm every other month. If you don't need to worm alot then that would be better. Some people only worm if their horse has a positive stool, you can get your vet to run the test or do a mailer.
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-01-2009, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Once we get the wormer in him (it's getting the stuff even close to his mouth that is a pain) he eats it all and doesn't try to spit it out.

I normally worm both my horses every 8 weeks on average.

I am hoping that showing him the worming tube every day will help

:: Karley ::
Tucker WB/TB- 11 yr
Speedy QH/TB- 22 yr
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-01-2009, 07:40 PM
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Most of the pelleted dewormers are pyrantel or fenbendazole. Read the rest of this post on resistance and you will understand why these types of dewormers likely aren't worth the money. There used to be a pelleted ivermectin product called Iver-ease but they have stopped making it. Even if you can find it, you will still need to get a paste dewormer down your horse with praziquantel in it to treat for tapeworms at least once a year, so you really need to take the time to train your horse to except deworming. Whether he really was abused in the past or not has no bearing on the fact that he NEEDS to stand calmly and accept oral and injectible medications because they may be what saves his life one day. And it may simply be that no one has ever done any proper desensitization to deworming syringes or other syringes and so you horse treats them like scary objects just because he doesn't see them often enough to "get over it".

I would recommend that you get your hands on some desensitizing videos and take time to teach your horse that odd items like syringes, stethoscopes, etc aren't going to kill him so that in the future you and your vet can safely treat your horse for whatever his problem may be---parasites or a life-threatening injury.


My long-winded deworming post:

For 40 years now, veterinarians have recommended that horses be dewormed every 8 weeks all year round and rotation of dewormers has been recommended for nearly that long. This is considered by many vets and horse owners to be “the recipe” for adequate and appropriate deworming of horses. However when you look at the research that has been done in the last 15 years you really have to question this practice. “’The recipe’ no longer represents an acceptable program for strongyle control” according to Dr. Craig R. Reinemayer, DVM, PhD of East Tennessee Clinical Research, Inc during a webinar presented via www.thehorse.com. This means that deworming recommendations for adult horses need to be reconsidered because strongyles are the only significant nematode pathogen of mature horses. Continuing to use the same old deworming program will likely lead to heavily parasitized horses and further drug resistance. Instead, each horse and each situation should be evaluated to determine the reinfection rates and an appropriate deworming program for the individual.

There are 4 classes of dewormer on the market:
benzimendazoles --fenbendazole, oxibendazole, other chemicals that end in -azole (there is a long list)
pyrantels---pyrantel pamoate (paste) and pyrantel tartrate (daily dewormer)
avermectins---ivermectin and moxidectin
praziquantel

Of those 4 classes, all but praziquantel are "broad spectrum" meaning that they kill several types of parasites. It is not necessary (or at least was not prior to the developement of parasite resistance) to rotate dewormers using these products to kill the most common parasites of horses. The "rotate to kill the different types of parasites" was necessary when we only had the much older drugs which were often only effective against one or two types of parasites. Praziquantel is the only one of the current drugs that is not broad spectrum and it kills tapeworms which the other drugs are not effective against unless you use pyrantel at twice the normal dose.

But, these drugs are not all as effective as they used to be because they have been over-used and mis-used for many years. Now we have parasites that are becoming and have become resistant to these drugs so we have to change our deworming strategies to help slow the build up of resistance while still minimizing the parasite load in our horses.

It's now known that all adult horses living in the same situation do not necessarily need to be dewormed on the same schedule. 50% of horses in a herd will control parasite loads on their own due to natural resistance. Only about 20-30% of horses carry heavy parasite loads.
Thus each horse should be dewormed based upon an understanding of his own personal resistance to parasites. The best recommendation is now 2-4 dewormings a year based upon knowing which horses carry lots of parasites and which tend to carry little parasite load.

Rotational deworming is no longer an adequate or appropriate deworming program for adult horses. There are too many issues with strongyles developing resistance to 2 of the 4 most commonly used dewormers on the market---fenbendazole (more than 90% of areas tested have resistant strongyles) and pyrantel (around 1/2 of areas tested have strongyles resistant to this drug). And resistance is starting to be seen in strongyles to ivermectin---1st study showing it was done in KY in the last couple of years.

All adult horses in the continental US/Canada should be dewormed spring and fall with ivermectin/praziquantel or moxidectin/praziquantel. Other than those 2 standard dewormings, the rest of the deworming program should be based upon location and the horse's own resistance to parasites. The new recommendation is 2-4 dewormings per year based upon fecal egg counts used to determine the normal amount of egg shedding each horse does during the time of year when the weather in your area is most conducive to strongyle larva development and environmental survival. In the northern states in the US and in Canada, this means running a fecal egg count in the middle of summer (3 months after spring dosing if you used ivermectin or 4 months after spring dosing if you used ivermectin). In the southern US and Mexico you would be looking at testing in the middle of the winter (same time after spring deworming as listed above). Then based upon the number of eggs per gram of feces you can determine if you need more than the spring/fall dewormings and if so if you need 1 or 2 more dosings.

In the northern US and Canada, deworming should be discontinued during the winter months because the environmental conditions are not conducive to reinfection---that time of year has been proven to have extremely low reinfection rates. In the southern US and Mexico the opposit is true....deworming can be discontinued during the heat of summer because temps over 85 degrees lead to the infective strongyle larva dying quickly in the environment so the reinfection rates are lowest then.

For more detailed information check out the deworming webinar that was aired via The Horse magazine's website in April. Be prepared to sit for a while because it is an hour long presentation, but it's well worth the time. The veterinarian gives you all the information on strongyles and deworming in adult horses that you've always wanted to know and then some. It is a wonderful lecture. (And have plenty of paper and a pen.) http://www.thehorse.com/Video.aspx?vID=1…
(Craig R. Reinemeyer, DVM PhD --parasitologist)

Cindy D.
Licensed Veterinary Technician
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-01-2009, 10:40 PM
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I completely agree with Ryle on getting your horse to accept the wormer (and whatever else you want to do with him). As she said, it may one day save his life. Veterinarians and vet techs do the best they can to help your animals, but when it comes to having to fight them to give treatments, it just isn't worth risking your life to save an animal. You never think about situations like that until you have the vet out in the middle of the night trying to restrain your wormer-terrified horse.

The apple sauce technique someone mentioned works- especially since your guy seems absolutely terrified of the syringe, he'll need to equate it with something pleasant before you can get it near enough to him to begin the real work. When you go to put it in his mouth, do not let him throw his head/move to get away. What works for me is to hold the tube in my hand while hanging on to the halter and that way he'll learn that throwing his head/moving away doesn't work- your hand just goes right with him. Once he stands still, take your hand down. I'd work on this every day. Molasses is great for this too. My guy used to throw his head when I had to bute him, but started giving it in molasses and not letting him get away from the syringe and now he'll stand there and lick anything I put his mouth calmly.
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-02-2009, 01:18 AM
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with granules its like a little sacket that you give with some grain, simple.
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-02-2009, 01:28 AM
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Training is definitely the answer here. I would put the empty tube in his mouth every day if it took me an hour. I imagine that the paste tastes awfull and that is why horses don't like it. If he gets it in his mouth every day and nothing bad ahappens then he should get over it pretty soon.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #17 of 21 Old 12-02-2009, 01:54 AM
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The apple sauce trick works. My pony is very fussy and won't eat whole apples, carrots etc and he doesn't have any problems with his teeth etc, he's just fussy. So one day I thought I'd start killing two birds with one stone. I gave him apple sauce in a syringe. He got a treat and he's learnt that syringes aren't bad. But yes, definitely give him apple sauce the week after you worm him so he keeps remembering it was a good thing.

And if he is deathly scared of the syringe, maybe just start carrying it with you, in your pocket and then one day bring it out and try and give him the apple sauce in it. Just keep it around and like let him see it, groom him with it in one hand, lead him with it in one hand and once he's fine with you just holding it, then try giving him the apple sauce.

This won't happen overnight, you really need to keep onto it and just have patience. And as stated before, it could save his life.
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-02-2009, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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The vet has been out and handled him just fine... he stood like a perfect gentleman for it all even getting his teeth done. So it isn't a matter of lack of training- it has something to do with wormer. We have given shots as well and he was fine.

When I first got him (in the May of 09) he would freak out putting on and off the bridle (yes I bridled him when I went to ride him with the owner and he was perfect, no problems till I got him home) and I worked for quite some time with him on this showing him that I wasn't going to hit his teeth on the way in or out with the bit.... so all that to say that I think someone was REALLY rough with his mouth and he is protective of it till he knows that you aren't going to hurt him.

Sooooo this is why- like I already stated- I have saved the last tube of wormer and washed it out and have been showing it to him every day. He still snorts at it but will get over it eventually. I have been holding it and rubbing it on his face and slowly will get to his mouth over time... I want to do it peaceful since every time we worm him it's a fiasco.

Thanks Everyone!

:: Karley ::
Tucker WB/TB- 11 yr
Speedy QH/TB- 22 yr
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-02-2009, 11:50 AM
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try putting molasses or syrup or maybe sugar on the outside of the tube to begain with (of course you might want to get a couple of empty tubes) let him lick the molasses/syrup/sugar off the outside of the tube to get him interested in the tube before putting it in his mouth.
If you feed him treats by hand (which I know isn't the best thing to do, but I'm a rebel) make sure and have the tube in the hand you feed him with that way he can smell the molasses/syrup/sugar on the tube.
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-02-2009, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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^yep that's what I have been doing ... putting it in his strategy so he has to eat around it or holding it down by it when he is eating I am a mean mom I know lol

:: Karley ::
Tucker WB/TB- 11 yr
Speedy QH/TB- 22 yr
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