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Enough for small claims?

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        04-13-2013, 11:48 PM
      #11
    Showing
    So someone who has no clue how to measure a saddle guesses at the size and gets it wrong is a case of fraud? Really?

    It's not like they pulled a culled bucking horse from the kill pen and then sold it for $20,000 as a show horse.
         
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        04-14-2013, 12:38 AM
      #12
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe4d    
    excuse me, but that is not buyer beware, that is FRAUD and its a crime, call her and demand your money back or you will file charges. Call the police in her area and also the postal inspectors. How did you pay for saddle ? If it was a credit card, call your bank and report it
    Oh my, I honestly hope you don't shop Ebay, and if you do, that you never bid on anything that I'm selling!!!! I am honestly horrified at the intensity and conviction of your response here! Seriously, you're going to call someone up and start threatening them?

    I'm sure that others have also read up on the horror stories from other vendors...even though I always take plenty of pictures, I'm HUMAN! And who's to say that the buyer chose his/her measurements right?! Two sides to any story and again, people make mistakes.
         
        04-14-2013, 12:54 AM
      #13
    Trained
    The rules for small claims vary from state to state. From a quick Internet search, in Colorado, the claim needs to be filed in the county where the defendant lives. Same for Kansas. You would need to check the rules for the specific state.

    I filed a claim in small claims once, for $5000. The guy who did the septic inspection before I bought the house (with a completely bad septic system, as it turned out) admitted in court that he never did the inspection. He admitted he "Figured, what were the odds? So I just signed the form and took my $150". The judge was silent for about 30 seconds, and then said, "This man is a licensed contractor. He did everything possible. Your case is dismissed!" If I had known then what I know now, I'd have filed a complaint against the judge with the State Bar.

    Bottom line: For me at least, I wouldn't think of going to small claims over $400. Your gas money going to and from while filing the paperwork would probably eat up anything you won, which might NOT be $400.
         
        04-14-2013, 08:22 AM
      #14
    Trained
    BSMS-since I just went through this out of state, I will say that you can file by fax or mail in most states-the forms are available on line. Now, is is worth is for $400? Up to the OP. But I will say that the fees will be about 1/3 that amount most likely, at least from what I found. Yes, IF you win, the judge can find the defendant liable for the fees also, but that is a big IF.

    I had a saddle company owe me $$-sent a certified letter telling them to pay by ____ or I would file. The check came the day before I mailed the papers. So, OP-you can try that first and see if that gets you anywhere, but, like I said, you should have asked for a picture of the measurement. You would see me in court if it were me.
         
        04-14-2013, 08:59 AM
      #15
    Showing
    Eh, I bought a German made Stubben off CL that was advertised as an 18" seat. When I got it it was HUGE, so I measured it and found it to be a 19" seat. Instead of freaking out at the seller, I turned around and resold the saddle with the correct measurements. Took about a week. No fuss, no muss.

    That's what I recommend you do as well, OP. I sincerely doubt the seller was trying to defraud you. It's not like you got a crappy, falling apart piece of garbage. The saddle has worth, and you can sell it on and recoup your money.
         
        04-14-2013, 05:54 PM
      #16
    Foal
    I don't think I'd be screaming fraud either, as it simply could be a mis-measurement on the seller's part. But with that being said, I would say this is about integrity. It's not like the purchaser received the item and then decided the size was wrong, she specifically sought out a certain size saddle, and if the seller was wrong in measuring it, they should do the right thing and take the saddle back. If you purchased say a pair of pants from a reputable online vendor in a size 27 and they sent you a 28, they would replace them with the correct size or refund you if they didn't have a 27.
    Like others have suggested, if it was purchased through e-bay, or with PayPal/ your CC, I would put the pressure on with those resources. Sure you could turn around and try to re-coup your money, but what an incredible waste of your time and efforts, with no guarantee of recovery, because the seller has no integrity. Just walking away is enabling this seller to continue their dishonest sale tactics, if not for you, do it for the next buyer that crosses their path!
    churumbeque likes this.
         
        04-14-2013, 06:09 PM
      #17
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GoGoJoeGranny    
    I don't think I'd be screaming fraud either, as it simply could be a mis-measurement on the seller's part. But with that being said, I would say this is about integrity. It's not like the purchaser received the item and then decided the size was wrong, she specifically sought out a certain size saddle, and if the seller was wrong in measuring it, they should do the right thing and take the saddle back. If you purchased say a pair of pants from a reputable online vendor in a size 27 and they sent you a 28, they would replace them with the correct size or refund you if they didn't have a 27.
    Like others have suggested, if it was purchased through e-bay, or with PayPal/ your CC, I would put the pressure on with those resources. Sure you could turn around and try to re-coup your money, but what an incredible waste of your time and efforts, with no guarantee of recovery, because the seller has no integrity. Just walking away is enabling this seller to continue their dishonest sale tactics, if not for you, do it for the next buyer that crosses their path!
    So here's the problem with that (and one reason I'm getting sick and tired of Ebay): So, the buyer can SAY anything. I state in my auctions that there are no returns, just for that reason!!!! Say I didn't pay attention to the 20 pictures the seller posted--I just don't like the color of the back, or some stupid cosmetic thing I don't like. All I have to say is "ITEM NOT AS DESCRIBED!!" And Ebay will back me, and screw the seller over! Look it up: there was a famous case recently about this guy who got screwed over an iPhone....turns out the BUYER was commiting fraud, and had done it to three or four other sellers!

    He'd buy these expensive electronics, say "Item not as described"...get his money back, ding the seller, and he'd KEEP THE ITEMS!

    Now, for that, for buyers remorse and many other reasons, I say "no returns". You'd think that would deter people, and maybe it does...but trust me, there are other buyers, like one idiot, complaining from day 1 about stuff *before the item even shipped*, pays late, gets the item, says it's the wrong size (I stated clearly the measurements of the item, which were on the PICTURED TAG even if I hadn't!), and what? Do you want your money back? It's not my fault you can't read! I am honestly not trying to screw people over, but at the same time, I'm not shipping stuff to people so they can look at it, see it, make it dirty, then TAKE MY MONEY to ship it back to me in unsaleable condition.

    If I sound frustrated, well, I am not a mega seller. I'm not Walmart! I take a very direct hit to my wallet when people are unscrupulous!

    It would be a different story if the item was really different than described. As you all know, saddle fit is really not one size fits all...you have no idea how many people email me "so um, will this saddle fit my horse? Like is this saddle for a high withered skinny minnie, or would it fit a QH?"

    How the heck should I know?! I'm not an expert, that's also stated in auction, as are pictures and measurements...go get your horse measured, and know before you bid! UGH!
         
        04-14-2013, 07:06 PM
      #18
    Trained
    ^^ Exactly-and, BTW-the saddle I sold and the lady wanted he $3K back? Guess what-it is listed-on eBay again, AND-they are using one of my pictures! I have contacted eBay....but....we will see. And only ONE picture. If I am shopping for a saddle I know what the saddle I have measures and where I measured it so that I will have a pretty good idea how another will fit my horse. Insist on MANY pictures!
         
        04-14-2013, 07:31 PM
      #19
    Foal
    I can understand your frustration for what you are talking about, but the OP clearly stated the item was not the same size as it was listed. It was not an act of the buyer, but the seller. And she did not even mention whether it fit the horse, she took it out of the box to measure the advertised seat size. No mention of it even being near a horse.
    I have used E-Bay for well over 15 years now. The last few years, I avoid it like the plague due to sellers not backing their products. I personally work in a (sort-of) retail business, and take great pride in creating RETURN customers. That's where we make our business flourish. Sure you may take an occasional hit on a (fill in any word here) buyer, but the relationships you create in the long run help pay many more overhead expenses. Word of mouth is always the BEST advertising, and it's relatively free!
    I mean I do understand where you are coming from, but this is not what you are describing from what's posted. She basically bought a size 7 shoe and was sent an 8, she was duped into a purchase and deserves to be righted. If my inability to use the brakes correctly at a red light meant I didn't have to pay for the damage I caused t-boning a car, then maybe I'd see your point....


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    So here's the problem with that (and one reason I'm getting sick and tired of Ebay): So, the buyer can SAY anything. I state in my auctions that there are no returns, just for that reason!!!! Say I didn't pay attention to the 20 pictures the seller posted--I just don't like the color of the back, or some stupid cosmetic thing I don't like. All I have to say is "ITEM NOT AS DESCRIBED!!" And Ebay will back me, and screw the seller over! Look it up: there was a famous case recently about this guy who got screwed over an iPhone....turns out the BUYER was commiting fraud, and had done it to three or four other sellers!

    He'd buy these expensive electronics, say "Item not as described"...get his money back, ding the seller, and he'd KEEP THE ITEMS!

    Now, for that, for buyers remorse and many other reasons, I say "no returns". You'd think that would deter people, and maybe it does...but trust me, there are other buyers, like one idiot, complaining from day 1 about stuff *before the item even shipped*, pays late, gets the item, says it's the wrong size (I stated clearly the measurements of the item, which were on the PICTURED TAG even if I hadn't!), and what? Do you want your money back? It's not my fault you can't read! I am honestly not trying to screw people over, but at the same time, I'm not shipping stuff to people so they can look at it, see it, make it dirty, then TAKE MY MONEY to ship it back to me in unsaleable condition.

    If I sound frustrated, well, I am not a mega seller. I'm not Walmart! I take a very direct hit to my wallet when people are unscrupulous!

    It would be a different story if the item was really different than described. As you all know, saddle fit is really not one size fits all...you have no idea how many people email me "so um, will this saddle fit my horse? Like is this saddle for a high withered skinny minnie, or would it fit a QH?"

    How the heck should I know?! I'm not an expert, that's also stated in auction, as are pictures and measurements...go get your horse measured, and know before you bid! UGH!
         
        04-14-2013, 07:41 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    Oh my, I honestly hope you don't shop Ebay, and if you do, that you never bid on anything that I'm selling!!!! I am honestly horrified at the intensity and conviction of your response here! Seriously, you're going to call someone up and start threatening them?

    I'm sure that others have also read up on the horror stories from other vendors...even though I always take plenty of pictures, I'm HUMAN! And who's to say that the buyer chose his/her measurements right?! Two sides to any story and again, people make mistakes.
    Threatening them? He said nothing about threatening them. Wow lmao wow
         

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