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Horse trade gone bad

This is a discussion on Horse trade gone bad within the Horse Law forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • How much time do you have to prosecute for misrepresenting a horse
  • Horse trading laws

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    09-19-2012, 12:04 PM
  #21
Super Moderator
I have re-read the OP's post and it seems to me that the registration she cancelled is actually the one of the horse she now has (complete with sarcoids) and not of the horse she sold

In the UK sarcoids have to be declared when a horse is sold at warranted auction as people often bid by telephone based on a description only and also usually the case in any advert as she are seen as an unsoundness and also greatly devalue the horse. Most people wont buy a horse with sarcoids

I do think that the OP has been foolish/naive and not handled the situation well but I also think that the seller was unscrupulous in her actions
     
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    09-19-2012, 12:08 PM
  #22
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I do think that the OP has been foolish/naive and not handled the situation well but I also think that the seller was unscrupulous in her actions
I will disagree.

The seller brought the horse to the OP. Upon arrival the OP had every chance to inspect the horse. But nope - OP was not there upon arrival. "Seller" did not try to pull anything.
     
    09-19-2012, 12:16 PM
  #23
Trained
I don't know about the Canadian registry but for AHA here's the rule for ownership transfers:

REG 124. CHANGE IN RECORDED OWNERSHIP FOR HORSES WITH A STANDARD CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION
To transfer the recorded ownership of a registered horse which has a standard Certificate of Registration, the recorded owner must complete and sign the transfer portion of the Certificate of Registration. A transfer of recorded ownership may be recorded if the following requirements are met:
  1. The completed and signed Certificate of Registration has been sent to the AHA Registry;
  2. The horse was resident in the United States or Mexico on the date of sale indicated; and
  3. The transfer fee has been paid.
On the back of the registration certificate is a section for the "Seller" that says:

The seller listed below must complete this section.
NAME OF CURRENT OWNER

A. Date of Sale _____________________________
OR
B. Contract Sale
Begining Date of Contract ____________________________

Ending Date of Contract _______________________________

Sellers Signature(s)

There are 2 lines in case of multiple owners.

Then the Buyer's Section:
The Buyer (new recorded owner) must complete this section. Please enter your ownership number below. If you have never registered a purebred Arabian in your name, leave this line blank and an ownership number will be established for you.

And then follows several lines for Ownership Number, Ownership Name, Address, & phones, and then signatures.

As far as AHA is concerned, this is proof of ownership. A Bill of Sale is nice but not necessary. As a seller, I check fairly frequently to make sure all horses that I don't own are transferred out even if the new owner never transfers them. If you check one of those horses they show up as me being last owner but then it says, STATUS Owner no longer owns, and gives the date I reported it to the registry.

I could not call and tell them to cancel a transfer. Once those papers are signed and someone has paid the transfer fee, there is a new owner as witnessed by my signature and I no longer own that horse and hoave no right to cancel the transaction.
AbsitVita likes this.
     
    09-19-2012, 12:21 PM
  #24
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
As a seller, I check fairly frequently to make sure all horses that I don't own are transferred out even if the new owner never transfers them. If you check one of those horses they show up as me being last owner but then it says, STATUS Owner no longer owns, and gives the date I reported it to the registry.
Didn't know that, DA; very cool! Glad to hear a previous owner can report that the horse has been sold/given away.

I know I should report my heart horse's death to the AHA, but I don't want to get his papers back with DECEASED stamped all over them. I know it doesn't make him any less dead, but I'd rather not get that reminder from them.
WickedNag and Silent one like this.
     
    09-19-2012, 12:28 PM
  #25
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls    
I will disagree.

The seller brought the horse to the OP. Upon arrival the OP had every chance to inspect the horse. But nope - OP was not there upon arrival. "Seller" did not try to pull anything.
I'm not saying that the OP behaved correctly or responsibly - she didn't but as someone who made a living out of working on a yard for many years that was partly involved in selling and also selling horses myself for some time after, as someone with a good reputation for honest and straight deals I would have been obliged to state that this horse had a sarcoid up front - (a) because of the soundness issue I have seen sarcoids get out of control and the horse does have to be euthanised to spare it the suffering) and (b) Because a sarcoid has a big impact on the value of the horse
I am NOT defending the OP but if I had behaved like the seller in a small country like the UK I would not have stayed in good esteem for very long and would have been prosecuted for misrepresenting a horse for sale
Dalehead Veterinary Group | Factsheet: Sarcoids - what you need to know
I don't know how the law works in the US but in the UK they have to be declared in any sale
     
    09-19-2012, 12:46 PM
  #26
Started
This seems to be a recurring theme on this forum. IMO, anyone who buys/trades (whatever the situation may be) a horse and doesn't get a PPE on the horse, has no right to go to the seller and complain about the horse and ask for a return. You (general) as a buyer have every right to get a PPE on a horse; not doing one is just irresponsible and is no one's fault but your own.

OP you will get no sympathy from me and the only advise I have for you is to take this as a lesson learned and never make the same mistake again.
egrogan, BellaMFT and AbsitVita like this.
     
    09-19-2012, 01:15 PM
  #27
Weanling
Color me confused, but why would someone trade a great, broke gelding for a green mare worth only 1/4 the price? Did you get something else in the trade to make it more equitable?

I just cannot image going into a trade willingly when I wasn't getting something at least close in value...

Is this common with horse trading?
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    09-19-2012, 01:20 PM
  #28
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseMom1025    
I just cannot image going into a trade willingly when I wasn't getting something at least close in value...

Is this common with horse trading?
Posted via Mobile Device
Nope, not common at all. There had to be some other reason the OP was willing to trade a completely broke gelding for a greenbroke mare.

I'm fairly certain we're only getting one very slanted side of the story.
     
    09-19-2012, 01:35 PM
  #29
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseMom1025    
Color me confused, but why would someone trade a great, broke gelding for a green mare worth only 1/4 the price? Did you get something else in the trade to make it more equitable?

I just cannot image going into a trade willingly when I wasn't getting something at least close in value...

Is this common with horse trading?
Posted via Mobile Device
I think you may be confused - or I am missing a post somewhere.
Where does it say that she traded a great broke gelding for a green mare?
I think she thought she was doing an equal value exchange deal and now finds that the horse she has ended up with is only worth $1000 due to it having sarcoids and not the $4000 it was being sold for.
She doesn't say why she wanted rid of her other horse - maybe that had problems and she thought that the new horse was the lesser of the two evils.
Buying 'blind' off the internet or from kill pens etc is a massive gamble but people still keep doing it.
     
    09-19-2012, 01:42 PM
  #30
Weanling
Sorry, I thought I had read that in one of the two threads about this situation...I just retread the threads.

So, I guess she "thought" the mare was worth $4,000, but now that she has her, she thinks the value is much less. I guess that makes more sense.
Posted via Mobile Device
     

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bill of sale, lawyer, legal, trade

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