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Law allowing horse slaughter in Oklahoma

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    03-15-2013, 11:25 PM
  #21
Green Broke
Just to add, horse sales are no different than any other livestock sale as far as you go to the one with the reputation for what you want to buy. Some sales are known for killer horses and others are known for saddle horses. You have to know your sales and go to the one that fits what you are looking for or selling.

Honestly I think the horse meat industry needs to be treated like the beef industry. Under law, horses are still considered livestock not house pets. If we are going to do it go all the way like what we do with beef- feed lots, drug withdrawl requirements, meat grading etc.

In my opinion, not using the meat is a lot like cutting down a tree and not using the wood.
     
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    03-15-2013, 11:38 PM
  #22
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
In my opinion, not using the meat is a lot like cutting down a tree and not using the wood.

Exactly. There are at least hundreds of thousands of people here in the US alone that are starving...or dang close to it.

Folks that can't afford meat for their children because beef is expensive as hell (and it's only going to get worse in the next couple of years). What would it be worth to them to have an alternative red meat available for a lower price?

If that wouldn't work (I know that many American's have an aversion to eating horse just because of the "fluffy majikal movie" beliefs), I know there are folks in other countries over in Africa that wouldn't turn the meat away.
COWCHICK77, Cherie and LisaG like this.
     
    03-15-2013, 11:48 PM
  #23
Green Broke
Exactly!
And the price of beef is going to go up like said, with hay shortages many are selling their replacement heifers off because they can't feed them up until breeding time and no one wants to buy them them feed them until breeding age. With the hay situation the horse market will get worse before it gets better.

(And don't even get me started on CA's brilliant dairy cow buy out....GAH!)
     
    03-16-2013, 01:44 AM
  #24
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    

(And don't even get me started on CA's brilliant dairy cow buy out....GAH!)
WHAT?
     
    03-16-2013, 09:05 AM
  #25
Super Moderator
It is not unusual for our local sale to have 200 head go through a Monday night sale. It is common for this sale to have horses bring anything in between $20.00 to $3000.00.

About half will go to the kill buyers, many without any other bids at all. They range from $20.00 to $400.00. The $400.00 ones are the obese old broodmares or geldings that weigh 1300# or more without any draft blood. Many sales do not have any going for more than $200.00. One sale last fall had 10 or 12 $400.00 mares go through that an embryo transfer center was getting rid of because they did not use them or they did not accept an embryo. These mares had been purchased at a sale the year before and were headed to slaughter then, so they got a reprieve and were very well fed for a while.

The kill buyers buy many horses for slightly more than auction slaughter price. They are penned separately. The main kill buyer here is a well-known 'trader', Bill Richardson. To give you an idea of the diversity of the horse trading business, we was the last owner of Smart Chick Olena and the rest of the horses out of Jim Babcock's bankruptcy proceeding. I have seen him buy 50 or 60 horses or more out of a sale and half of them are micro chipped and go straight to Mexico while the other half go to his ranch. If they do not pan out for what he bought them for, they go to Mexico with a later truckload. He is an 'order buyer' and oftentimes will buy horses to fit an order he has for them.

Other traders buy 1 to 5 horses at every sale, paying little over slaughter price. These are usually horses ridden through the ring that rode decent but not great. They take them home, clean them up, try them out and evaluate them. If they are not totally spoiled go lame with riding, they will ride them a while and sell them for a profit. This used to be a lot better game than it is now. Many young horses (especially unregistered ones) NOW go to slaughter because the loss of value from a few years back make them too questionable of an investment to be a 'project horse'.

One of the terrible 'unintended consequences' of closing US slaughter plants is that MANY MORE YOUNG AND HEALTHY horses now have no other bidders.

Slaughter horses are bringing the same price now AT THE PROCESSING PLANT that they brought before the closure of our plants. Only difference is that now, about $500.00 or $600.00 of that price goes to the trucking of those horses to Mexico.

There is a huge horse feedlot at Morton Texas. It used to have as many as 20,000 horses there eating from feed-bunks kept full of alfalfa. Feed is too high now. I have been told that the only horses there now are waiting for trucking or are getting over snots or strangles so they can get clean health certificates to go to the plants. The animal rights nuts call them 'abandoned at the border' but they are just waiting for a different shipment. Obviously, buyers would not pay for them and then throw them away. What on earth do these nut cases think happened to the thousands of horses that they claim are abandoned? They just 'vanished'? That would be neat trick. I would guess that a few cannot cross that were severely injured in shipping.

A lot of other misinformation is spread by the animal rights nuts and terrorists. One is that double decker trucks are still used. They are not and have not been used for several years. They all ship on 'floor trucks' (50 foot cattle trucks with a flat floor. Slaughter buyers also do not buy stallions because they also cannot be shipped with other horses. [One guy used to buy all of them here, cut them, fatten them up and resell them.]

The 'set-in' price would instantly go up to around $300.00 for healthy thin horses and up to $800.00 to $1000.00 for fat ones if plants reopened within hauling distance here. The reason there is NO market for them in the SE part of the US is because they cannot be shipped from there to Texas to Mexico. Shipping would be worth more than the horses without close markets.
     
    03-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #26
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Exactly. There are at least hundreds of thousands of people here in the US alone that are starving...or dang close to it.

Folks that can't afford meat for their children because beef is expensive as hell (and it's only going to get worse in the next couple of years). What would it be worth to them to have an alternative red meat available for a lower price?

If that wouldn't work (I know that many American's have an aversion to eating horse just because of the "fluffy majikal movie" beliefs), I know there are folks in other countries over in Africa that wouldn't turn the meat away.
Since it isnt illegal to eat horse meat in the US why isnt more of the processed meat sold back into this country? Horses are selling for an all time low at market so I would have thought that this would have already been happening if the demand for cheap meat was there or does it just need advertising more efficiently?
The big problem with selling horsemeat into Africa at prices below that of chicken and goat is that it has to be slaughtered, processed/butchered and shipped there with import costs. The sort of poverty in those countries often doesnt allow for even a means of cooking in homes and certainly no refrigeration facilities which is why charities tend to go more for live chickens and goats that can be killed and prepared by the user on site and easily cooked over an open fire.
There is already a surplus of cheap unwanted horses and donkeys throughout adjoining European countries that have easier access into African countries.
     
    03-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #27
Showing
Jaydee, having a horse processed for personal use in the US isn't illegal, but the SALE of horse meat for human consumption is. Now that the funding for the USDA inspectors has been addressed, it's time the US started looking at repealing the sale for human consumption ban.
     
    03-16-2013, 04:38 PM
  #28
Super Moderator
The states that banned it for human consumption back in the 40s, 50s and 60s (like OK and TX did) in order to protect the cattle industry after WWII. Horse meat was sold everywhere in the US during the war because all of the beef was being taken to feed soldiers. My family ate nothing but horse meat during the war and right after. I remember seeing it when I shopped with my mother in the early 50s in Colorado.

After WWII, beef prices fell to 1/2 of what they were and cattlemen were going broke. They had the state legislatures pass laws against processing and/or eating horse meat to help cattle prices. The Texas law was passed in 1947 after being pushed through by the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Assoc. That is the old law that the AR nuts found that closed down the last TX plant in 2007.

Illinois passed a ban by initiative when all of the AR people got signatures from city people, which of course, knew nothing of the 'unintended consequences' that would make the plight of horses 10X worse.
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    03-16-2013, 05:28 PM
  #29
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
WHAT?
Sorry, I ended up going off on a tangent there...LOL

CA dairy buy-out short story, basically price fixing milk. Ca bought dairy cattle out from the dairy farmers, dairy farmers are no dummies, they would reopen the dairy under a different name, buy more cattle and Ca would buy them out again. I know guys that shipped new cattle into dairies then turned around and shipped them to the kill plant the next week. Dairies made a pile of money and the price of milk went up but they flooded the beef market causing a huge drop in beef prices. (The hamburger at McDonalds is most likely Holstein, not Angus unless certified) This was a few years ago, I have no problem with regulations from the government as far as holding standards for kill plants, meat grades, milk quality or whatever, but I do have issues with subsidies.
     
    03-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #30
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
Sorry, I ended up going off on a tangent there...LOL

CA dairy buy-out short story, basically price fixing milk. Ca bought dairy cattle out from the dairy farmers, dairy farmers are no dummies, they would reopen the dairy under a different name, buy more cattle and Ca would buy them out again. I know guys that shipped new cattle into dairies then turned around and shipped them to the kill plant the next week. Dairies made a pile of money and the price of milk went up but they flooded the beef market causing a huge drop in beef prices. (The hamburger at McDonalds is most likely Holstein, not Angus unless certified) This was a few years ago, I have no problem with regulations from the government as far as holding standards for kill plants, meat grades, milk quality or whatever, but I do have issues with subsidies.
Aaah, ok, gotcha! I guess that all happened after I left CA for OK or else when I was a kid. Don't remember hearing anything about it.
     

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