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Law allowing horse slaughter in Oklahoma

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    04-01-2013, 10:30 AM
  #71
Trained
I grew up in horse country, the world's best riding horses are, and have been, bred in. The culls always went to the butcher. Every town had a horse butcher, who would even come to the farm, load the horse on the trailer, shot and bled it and took it away. Others would allow the owner to hold the horse for the " deed", to make sure an old, sick or injured animal would not end up in a bad place. Horse meat was always a bit cheaper than beef, so there was a market for it. We don't have many low end auctions like here.
An oldtimer breeder told me once, countries who eat horse, have better quality horses.
And countless racehorses all over Europe are being slaughtered for meat for human consumption AND animal feed. With all the doping rules in place for these horses, and enforcing these rules for testing, most medications are out of the system by the time these horses are being processed( they don't pump them full of medications for nothing).
IMO, the only way to convince breeders to breed less( obviously nobody can influence the "I want to raise my own special foal" people anyway) would be up to breed associations to pay out the biggest chunk of money to adult horses, not in the futurities.
Oh, and I don't eat horse and wouldn't sell mine for meat.
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    04-01-2013, 10:46 AM
  #72
Weanling
First off, pro-slaughter...

Funny thing the hubby and I were talking about this. I talked about how palatable horse meat is (so I've heard) and told him with all the processed meats I mentioned owning feral "meat horses." It's a bit odd to outwardly say it, but my biggest issue would be trying not to associate them with my own. Hence the "feral" part.

If it came down to it, I wouldn't turn away a plate.

I would rather a horse be slaughtered than to starve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
And countless racehorses all over Europe are being slaughtered for meat for human consumption AND animal feed. With all the doping rules in place for these horses, and enforcing these rules for testing, most medications are out of the system by the time these horses are being processed( they don't pump them full of medications for nothing).

The bolded part even applies to humans.

Your son is day-dreaming, oh dope him up he has ADHD... We over-dope quite a lot of things in the US.

Your daughter gets in a rut frequently, she must be depressed... Give her anti-depressents.

*scoff*
     
    04-01-2013, 12:40 PM
  #73
Showing
LOL, here, I'll throw another monkey with a wrench into this thread.

I'd also support the slaughter (for human consumption) of culled BLM mustangs that are not adopted by a certain age. With them, you wouldn't have to worry about drug withdrawal times and even most genetic diseases are difficult/impossible to find in them.

That alone would open up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year where we taxpayers weren't having to provide hay for thousands of horses in holding pens that will never be adopted and can't be turned back out into the wild.
     
    04-01-2013, 01:33 PM
  #74
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
Thank you deserthorsewoman.

Bute is not allowed in slaughter animals ONLY because no withdrawal times have been established by laboratory testing like has been done with all medications used in traditional food animals. Same is true of Banamine and several other anti-inflammatory drugs not used in food animals. That testing is being done now and withdrawal times will be established.

Early testing has found that Bute has a very short half-life -- hence why it must be given 2 times daily for good results. Early testing indicates that only traces of it can be found after only 72 hours and most of it is found in the liver -- which has to detoxify it.

Bute was used extensively in the 60s in humane medicine. I was prescribed Bute (still remember it came in orange and white capsules) when I had a serious knee injury. I was warned that a few people that stayed on it too long could get 'aplastic anemia' so I had frequent blood tests while on it. It was so hard on my stomach that quit taking it long before I was supposed to. I had my knee drained and injected several times and finally cleared it up with DMSO.

The big BUTE SCARE is just another lie and half truth spread by the animal rights nuts to try to destroy the market for horse meat and thus stop slaughter from that end.

NOT ONE PERSON OR GROUP OF PEOPLE CAN DOCUMENT ONE SINGLE CASE OF ANYONE EVER BEING HARMED, KILLED OR SICKENED BY EATING HORSE MEAT!

Do the research and find one single case of 'tainted horse meat' actually causing even a tiny bit if harm. Lots of people have died of eating beef. Horse meat has a much safer track record. Frankly, if we did not raise and have our own meat animals custom processed, I would consider 'cheval' to be a safer product.
Why do you ask me to 'do the research'?
I could have told you that you would have to eat a lot of that meat for the medication even if present in trace amounts to be harmful but that doesn't escape the fact that Bute is not permitted in any meat intended for human consumption because its not a permitted drug for use in humans.
It may not remain in the bloodstream but part of the recent UK uproar over horsemeat being passed off as beef was that several of the carcasses tested positive for Bute in deep tissue analysis.
Do you have any idea how long acceptable trials take to complete?
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    04-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #75
Super Moderator
The 'uproar' comes totally from the animal rights nuts stirring the pot. They have tried every way possible to malign the industry and to spread false rumors of dangerous meat. BUT, THEY STILL CANNOT SITE ONE SINGLE CASE OF ANYONE BEING SICKENED OR EVEN FOUND TO HAVE ANY MEASURABLE SUBSTANCE IN THEIR BODIES.

And as for Bute not being used in human medicine -- MANY animal drugs are not used in humans. Many hormones and deadly poisons like 'ionofors' are not used in humans. Traces of some of these chemicals that are fed routinely to producing dairy cattle and feedlot cattle will KILL people. They still are allowed and have set withdrawal times. [Try opening a sack of Rumensen and sprinkle it on you cereal and see how long it takes a non-rumanent like you to die.] This is the main reason we raise our own meat. I do not want the antibiotics and chemical additives that are routinely given to commercial food animals.

The laboratory testing on Bute and other untested 'banned' drugs is supposed to be done by July 1st of this year. Hopefully they can meet that date. The drug companies and USDA are jointly getting this testing done like it has been on other drugs for many years. When testing is completed, I would hope the sale of cheval will be allowed in this country.

Smrobs -- I heartily agree. Taxpayers are supporting about 30,000 useless, feral modern horses (commonly known as mustangs) around the country that are living out long useless lives on the public dole. These are only the ones in holding facilities and sanctuaries -- does not count the ones running 'wild'. The ones being held for no reason what so ever cost us taxpayers between $21 million and $25 million dollars a year. That is on top of the costs of roundups, shipping excess horses off the rangelands and other feral horse programs.
     
    04-01-2013, 05:18 PM
  #76
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
LOL, here, I'll throw another monkey with a wrench into this thread.

I'd also support the slaughter (for human consumption) of culled BLM mustangs that are not adopted by a certain age. With them, you wouldn't have to worry about drug withdrawal times and even most genetic diseases are difficult/impossible to find in them.

That alone would open up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year where we taxpayers weren't having to provide hay for thousands of horses in holding pens that will never be adopted and can't be turned back out into the wild.

Like grass fed beef, some folks might pay quite a lot for this kind of "clean" meat. There's NO chemicals in it at all. Probably very lean, and maybe healthier than other meats? Money spent on the horses slaughtered and sold for meat could be used to keep those left in the wild on good range and in supportable numbers.
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    04-01-2013, 05:21 PM
  #77
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
But the animal right nuts will never admit this and will always think they have it right. There will always be 'unwanted horses' and there will always be a need for a humane way to make 100,000 to 200,000 of them leave the marketplace each and every year. The horses available will never be the horses that are in demand. There is no place that this many horses can go. They cannot just disappear. To poison them and waste the meat is insane. The animal rights nuts' REAL AGENDA is to stop all animal ownership and use. They would like to force their radical views on everyone. NO PETS -- NO HORSES OWNED OR USED -- NO PRODUCT OR MEDICINE TESTING -- NO MEAT OR ANIMAL PRODUCTS AVAILABLE TO BE EATEN OR USED!!!! They have one of the most radical agendas of any group in the US, right along with terrorists that want to kill us. Both want to see our way of life and values destroyed.
Wow, I have NO IDEA where you got that from my posts.... I never said that we should not have pets, that horses should not be owned or used, that no meat or animal products should be available to be eaten or used, or that we should not allow product or medicine testing. Really? It seems pretty pathetic that you put me in this category considering that I am taking a logical approach to the horse slaughter issue. I find it quite irritating that you have apparently lost all logic in reason in your posting. It makes me much less prone to regard your information and opinions as credible.

I have merely noticed, through research on BOTH PARTS of the argument, that horse slaughter is not an economical decision for America. The truth is, horse slaughter is costly, and will not benefit our economy. Also, horse slaughter will not reduce the number of unwanted horses. It only PROMOTES irresponsible breeding through providing a dumping ground for breeders who breed irresponsibly.

With regards to your statement about unwanted horses never being in demand, that just goes to show how little experience you have had with them. The horse rescue that I am involved with, Little Brook Farm, has rescued over 70 horses. Many of their horses are used in riding lessons, camps, eventing, show jumping, and dressage. Hamlet, one of their horses who was rescued for a few hundred dollars, is a grade who was headed for slaughter. He now competes in training level eventing. They have received an offer, which they turned down, for $40,000 for this horse. He was previously in the bracket of "unwanted horses" and would have ended up in slaughter had they not have rescued him. Another one of their horses, a thoroughbred, was appraised for $22,000 only a few months after his rescue. Yet another example of the value of the so-called unwanted horses is a horse they just recently rescued. He is a thoroughbred who was bought as a two-year old for $150,000. Just a few years following, he was headed for slaughter, emaciated. He is now a healthy, sound, 5 year-old. The truth is, if a majority of the unwanted horses were given training and care instead of being sent to slaughter, they would be perfectly useful horses. Banning slaughter would reduce the number of horses bred, as breeders would be unable to dump their horses and would instead have to find homes for them. It would actually be a good business opportunity, as people would soon realize the value of many of these horses once their are trained. There would be more places like Little Brook Farm, who take the population of primarily good horses (although unwanted) and train them in something at which they excel. The truth is, most of the unwanted horses are only unwanted because they have not been given a job.

Finally, horse slaughter is NOT humane. Everything, from being loaded into Double-decker stock trailers (supposed to be illegal, but still happens), to the actual slaughter process. By the way, I have read articles from the AVMA. The captive bolt is designed (even according to the AVMA and AAEP) to be administered by a veterinarian. Veterinarians do not administer the captive bolt in slaughter houses. It is administered by employees who are not highly trained on administration of this device. This, combined with the lack of proper head restraint, causes a decreased accuracy. Since the captive bolt can only be administered effectively to a very precise location, it frequently results in ineffective stunning.
     
    04-01-2013, 05:24 PM
  #78
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
Allegro, here is an article on Cattlenetwork.com, Horse-slaughter debate heats up. Just to give you a small sample of how the beef industry feels about horse slaughter.

Horse slaughter has not effected beef prices the past and it will not now...
This article proves where you get your "information".
Frozen burger sales plunge 43% after horsemeat scandal | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Really? Beef sales didn't drop?

French sales of beef dishes drop 45% after horsemeat scandal
French sales of beef dishes drop 45% after horsemeat scandal < French news | Expatica France

The only thing that prevented the horse meat scandal from ending up on US soil was the fact that the US didn't import beef from other countries, and didn't have slaughter houses in their country. Once horse slaughter is on US soil once more, we will no longer be able to say that.
     
    04-01-2013, 05:35 PM
  #79
Started
I love when folks get on here and cry about us "meanies" who are pro slaughter. They always say the same thing: these old, crippled, dangerous, "fill in the blank" horses should be rescued and not slaughtered. Umm, I don't see the humaniacs down at the auctions buying them up and putting them out on their big ranches and feeding these horses to save them. I don't see them buying off Craigs list or wherever and saving all these horses. Heck, I am sure half the time, the humaniacs live in the city and don't own horses, they expect everyone else to fix the problem. Why don't they donate their paychecks to feed starving horses? Yea, right... HUMANIACS, as I call them, all have the typical agenda that PETA, SHARK and the HSUS have: get rid of all animals forever and just pay them all the money they bring in from suckers who believe their agendas..
They bring up medications: hmm, I have sold thousands and thousands of vaccinations given to cattle starting when they hit the ground, give to pregnant cows, given to calves, given to dairy cows, given to beef cows. They are injected with stuff almost all their lives to keep them from getting sick, to gain weight, etc.They get injections given under the skin to make them gain weight, time release stuff. And I just love the " the horse knows it is going to die" statements these folks make. No, the horse doesn't know its going to die, why it's stressing is because it smells blood.Just like a horse that panics because a bag blows across its face, its not normal.. Animals do not think like humans and the sooner that human emotions are not given to horses, the better. When we take hunting horses up to pack out game, they smell the blood and some get quite upset with it., others could care less. Please do not tell me they are thinking" oh no, I am going to die because I smell blood". They smell blood, any blood and get riled up. Yet, its okay to eat beef, from cows who smell blood and panic also. Cows who are packed into the trucks, who fall and hurt themselves, who lay in urine, cows who in traveling to slaughter get a leg broken. Yet somehow, the same humaniacs who cry and bellow for the horses figure its okay to let cattle get the same treatment............ Yah okay.
I eat meat, I hunt and shoot game to eat, butcher beef.
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    04-01-2013, 05:36 PM
  #80
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
I guess the whole point you're missing in your rabid diatribe is that NO ONE WANTS THOSE HORSES.

I had a friend like you on my FB list who was just as big into yelling about how evil horse slaughter was....you know what? I suggested she go rescue a horse. Her response? "I donate to the rescues...I can't AFFORD to board a horse like YOU can"

Um. Right. So you can disparage horse slaughter, but what do you propose happens to all the unwanted horses? All well and good that you have a theory about the slow trickle decline of breeding, but given that horses live 30+ years, what happens to all those poor things on the ground that NO ONE CAN AFFORD, including my loud, loud, imaginative friend?

How is that not comparable to dogs and cats? How many purebreds end up euthed in shelters because no one wants or can afford them. DO YOU THINK THEY WERENT BRED FOR MONEY? Are you kidding me? Who breeds german shepherds (saw at kill shelter, 8 weeks old) and other pure breds *not* for economic reasons?
Heh.
I am talking about money in regards to the euthanasia. I am talking about the actual killing. Horse slaughter is ONLY about profit. When slaughter plants were legal in the US, they were importing horses from Canada even though there were still plenty of unwanted horses in the US. Why? Because they want the horses that will produce the best meat. If horse slaughterhouse owners didn't make a profit, there would be no horse slaughter. They wouldn't continue to slaughter the unwanted horses to supposedly keep the equine population down. You need to realize that horse slaughter does not, has never, and never will care about equine welfare.

I am involved in a horse rescue, Little Brook Farm, which is one of the oldest horse rescues on the East Coast. They have rescued over 70 horses. I own 5 horses, 4 of which are grades. I also sponsor one of the horses at Little Brook Farm. So no, I don't just complain about the issue.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, most of the unwanted horses are only unwanted because they have not been given a job. I have a solution to the unwanted horse problem. Combined with the banning of slaughter (which will cause a reduction in breeding), the solution is rescue, retraining, and placement. Little Brook Farm is the best example of that. They take the population of mostly good horses (although unwanted) and train them in disciplines at which they excel. Many of their horses are used and trained as lesson horses, in riding camps, in eventing, in show jumping, in dressage, or even in vaulting. Nearly half of the horses currently at the rescue are considered young horses. These are horses that have a future and can be trained if people take the time. In my previous comment, I mentioned Hamlet, who is a perfect example of what unwanted horses are capable of. The rescue has been offered $40,000 for this grade horse who was originally saved from slaughter for a few hundred dollars. Hamlet competes in training level eventing. All he needed was care, and training to go from unwanted to wanted.
     

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