Long term, off the farm lease. - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 25 Old 11-15-2013, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,246
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The people who want to lease her are trying her out tomorrow, so hopefully they'll give me a yes or no on whether they're going through with it or not.

I actually got an insurance quote, because I may go that route and just have the lessee pay for insurance/we split insurance.


So, here's some numbers. Tell me what they mean.

Horse Name
Flash of Lightening
Breed
Tennessee Walker
Age
7
Birth Month / Year
03/26/2006
Sex
Mare
Use
Endurance
Purchase Price ($)
2000
Choose Limits & Coverage Desired:
All Risk Mortality, Colic & Theft ($)
4000
Major Medical
$ 7,500
Colic & Surgical Only
No
Loss of Use - External Injury
Yes - 2%
Loss of Use - Full Coverage
Yes - 3.75%
Stallion ASD
No


I'm currently debating with the insurance company over my horse's value. I say she's worth 4,000. I purchased her as a green broke, unproven four-year-old for 2000. I've since won a national championship, she was fourth in the nation in 2011, and first in the nation in 2012. She also has over 1000 competition miles. So we may debate back and forth, but she is certainly worth more than 2000.


The premium they gave me (with her value at 2000) is $695. Is that all paid at one time, or spread out over a series of payments? I seriously don't understand insurance. Even if I don't end up taking out an insurance policy on this horse, I do want to understand insurance anyway.
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-16-2013, 03:14 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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You need a lawyer to draw up the contract. Talk to the ins. Agent if a payment plan is possible. It seems it's always riskier to let a horse go out of state and you could be dealing with different laws and courts if it backfires.
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-19-2013, 02:55 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New South Wales, Australia
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I've heard insurance claims can be really tricky. Like just because you say she's worth $4000 when the time comes they might argue that, or at least part of it. Sometimes they will only pay out "loss of use" if you can provide proof of "usefulness" like recent (previous six months) and regular competition records and results, vet reports etc. If you can't prove it they don't always pay.

Frequency of payments may depend on company. I'd also ask about excess (how you much you have to pay before they pay) and how much they pay for loss of use. That just looks like they cover death (not permanent loss of use) and only major surgeries.

I'd be hesitant, perhaps I'd put in a clause in the contract to be something like "In case of death or loss of use leasee is required to pay the agreed value ($4000) of horse to owner. Leasee is required to purchase insurance to cover medical and death costs and is responsible for all vet costs during lease term. Should the horse's death or permanent injury not be covered by the purchased insurance leasee remains liable for all vet bills and the agreed value of the horse."

I'd obviously get it worded better, but I'd want it to be clear that regardless of how much the insurer pays out you must end up with the agreed value and all vet costs must be paid for.
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post #14 of 25 Old 11-19-2013, 07:45 PM
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When I free leased horses I didn't pay for anything. The owner provided the horse, feed, farrier, vet etc. I paid for show costs, although there were times when the owner covered those as well.

The reason why? I was providing free board for the owner. The horse got it's stall mucked every day, clean fresh water, fed 3-4x daily, exercise and free training. The owner did not ride as she was working and having health issues- she just wanted her horses to get attention and love while she was busy. She had a lot of animals, and one less was less work for her.

If I had to pay for everything, why bother leasing, if you can just go buy a horse?

If you are in college, the cost of boarding your horse near you will be $300-$500 per month, so even if you cover some of the costs of the horse (like feed or farrier), that is still less than if you end up keeping the horse with you.

I would see if you can find a person to free lease closer to you. That way you can visit the horse, make sure he is well cared for, and maybe cover his feed, or work out a way to take him on rides during weekends.

As a lessee, I would never agree to covering vet costs unless it was due to neglect. If the horse goes lame or gets arthritis, I would not want to be stuck paying for injections on a horse that isn't mine.

Again, there is no point in leasing if I had to pay you , the feed, vet, farrier, and insurance, as well as having to haul home hay/feed and muck stalls. That would eventually add up to being more money than if I actually bought a horse. You may have a hard time finding someone to agree to those terms unless your horse is really spectacular.

I would never send my horse out of state- that is just asking for trouble.

Around here, I could half lease a horse, get lessons and go to shows for a flat monthly fee- without worrying about vet bills, feeding or mucking.

You may have better luck finding someone closer to you if you are willing to cover more yourself.
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post #15 of 25 Old 11-19-2013, 08:03 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Portland, OR
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$695 seems really high. I pay 3.25% of my horse's declared value for mortality (it used to be 3% but went up when I started jumping him!) and then $300 more for $7500 in major medical. Maybe they charge more for different locations, but you should look into getting a few comparison quotes. (I purchase my insurance through Broadstone Equine)
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post #16 of 25 Old 11-19-2013, 08:40 PM
Green Broke
 
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Location: Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4horses View Post
When I free leased horses I didn't pay for anything. The owner provided the horse, feed, farrier, vet etc. I paid for show costs, although there were times when the owner covered those as well.

The reason why? I was providing free board for the owner. The horse got it's stall mucked every day, clean fresh water, fed 3-4x daily, exercise and free training. The owner did not ride as she was working and having health issues- she just wanted her horses to get attention and love while she was busy. She had a lot of animals, and one less was less work for her.

If I had to pay for everything, why bother leasing, if you can just go buy a horse?

If you are in college, the cost of boarding your horse near you will be $300-$500 per month, so even if you cover some of the costs of the horse (like feed or farrier), that is still less than if you end up keeping the horse with you.

I would see if you can find a person to free lease closer to you. That way you can visit the horse, make sure he is well cared for, and maybe cover his feed, or work out a way to take him on rides during weekends.

As a lessee, I would never agree to covering vet costs unless it was due to neglect. If the horse goes lame or gets arthritis, I would not want to be stuck paying for injections on a horse that isn't mine.

Again, there is no point in leasing if I had to pay you , the feed, vet, farrier, and insurance, as well as having to haul home hay/feed and muck stalls. That would eventually add up to being more money than if I actually bought a horse. You may have a hard time finding someone to agree to those terms unless your horse is really spectacular.

I would never send my horse out of state- that is just asking for trouble.

Around here, I could half lease a horse, get lessons and go to shows for a flat monthly fee- without worrying about vet bills, feeding or mucking.

You may have better luck finding someone closer to you if you are willing to cover more yourself.
Why bother leasing? Because you don't need to pay for the purchase price of a horse, and if you decide you want a different horse, don't want to lease anymore, fall on hard times, or the horse can't be used anymore then you don't have to deal with a horse you don't need anymore.

You may have gotten a good deal because the lady could afford it and wanted her horse worked, but the average person would be hard pressed to find a horse to lease without paying for the bills. Horses aren't free.
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post #17 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 12:11 AM
Yearling
 
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Maybe it is just where I live, but there is never a shortage of horses to ride around here (for free), if you are a decent rider.

I had a friend looking for months for someone to come ride/show their 4H horse. The person I've been working for is looking for someone to ride and show one of their horses. Maybe it is just being part of the industry and knowing people, but if I was looking for a horse to ride and show (or trail ride) all I'd have to do is pick up the phone.

I wish the original poster luck- I hope things work out for her.
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post #18 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 12:47 AM
Green Broke
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4horses View Post
Maybe it is just where I live, but there is never a shortage of horses to ride around here (for free), if you are a decent rider.

I had a friend looking for months for someone to come ride/show their 4H horse. The person I've been working for is looking for someone to ride and show one of their horses. Maybe it is just being part of the industry and knowing people, but if I was looking for a horse to ride and show (or trail ride) all I'd have to do is pick up the phone.

I wish the original poster luck- I hope things work out for her.
That's not the case here. Maybe if you happen to be close friends with someone, or MAYBE be willing to take on a horse straight from pasture. As far as a well trained show worthy horse? Not going to happen! People who have money are going to pay someone to keep their horses in training, or they're going to get someone to pay for a lease. It's definitely an option to look into if there's a suitable horse for free to ride, but I wouldn't ever count on it!
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
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This isn't a backyard pet, or a kid's/local show kind of horse. This is a national champion, could-go-all-the-way sort of horse. Saying I'm crazy for wanting to ask a little per month for the horse is like expecting someone to free lease their grand prix jumper prospect for free. Sure, one can find any old horse to ride for free. But a finished, proven, ready-to-roll CTR horse well trained enough for a junior to ride to hopefully to a second national championship this year?

Please, tell me where to free lease one of those no strings attached.


*cough* Sorry. I'm just wanting to get out there that this is a valuable horse who in engages in high stress, high strain competition, and I want to do my best not to lose my assets if something goes sour.

The lessees aren't doing me a favor. They aren't training my horse in exchange for my letting them have her for free. They needed a competition horse; I'm providing them one. They also aren't my only options as far as leases go. I could just as easily put my horse into professional training to keep her in shape.
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Last edited by Brighteyes; 11-20-2013 at 09:46 PM.
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post #20 of 25 Old 11-21-2013, 08:28 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Louisiana
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If your horse is in that high of demand then you should have no problem finding someone in your area to lease. Or even someone back home where your parents or friends could look in on him from time to time. Unless you personally know a phenomenal rider that is out of state there is no way I would send such an in demand horse away for a lease when anything could happen away from you! Even if the horse is an hour away from you then there's still the potential for the monthly visit and ride, but if they're four hours away or something it's much less doable.
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