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someone illegally sold me a horse

12K views 52 replies 20 participants last post by  Majolica 
#1 ·
I bought a horse about 9 months ago and paid around $4,000 for her.She was described to us as being a show horse in western pleasure and that we could breed her.She is 11 years old.We gave the cashiers check to the stable owner to give to the "owner" of the horse but he was not to do this until she had ALL the required paperwork including reg and transfer/bill of sale.He gave her the money and it took me a month to even get the bill of sale.So here I am 9 months later with only a COPY of her registration and a bill of sale not for my state.I have had many calls/texts with the person I bought her from and its one excuse and lie after another for why she hasn't transferred her to me.I have in the last 2 days found the original owner and now I know why she never did.There was a legally binding contract between them.She was given the horse with promise of first refusal or a foal.She could not sell her and did.I legally do not own this horse and she stole my money.I also need to say we were told she was 100% paint and she is not.We do have the copy of her paint registration but she is also reg Pinto and both are still in the original owners name.So my question is:what should I or can I do legally? Who do I call? I am very upset and usually could handle things but this is just too complex.Thank you for reading.
 
#2 ·
First welcome and I am so sorry you are in this situation. I would contact a lawyer and see what options you have. How much do you like this mare? Do the original owners want this mare back? If the original owner had the legal contract then they should also be speaking to a lawyer. It may be that if this is a good home and the original owner does not want the mare they may be able to transfer ownership to you. I think its important to keep some lines of communication open with the original owners as clearly you were both had in this horrible situation.
 
#7 ·
I'll just note first that she can be both 100% (registered) Paint and registered Pinto. Pinto, like buckskin and a few others, is a colour registration - if the horse is correctly coloured then it can be registered as a Pinto whatever the breed.

Personally I wouldn't have relied on the stable owner to look after my interests when it came to the transfer of money - I'm pretty sure they'd be more likely to have a good relationship with the owner than you, as the owner is a client.

From where I sit, depending on how legally binding any of these contracts actually were (I know lots of people request the "first refusal" thing but I'm pretty sure most of the time it isn't actually binding, but more a goodwill move), the horse belongs to either you or the original owner. Do you have any form of receipt, or evidence (emails, text messages etc) that you paid for the horse? Were there any witnesses when you handed over the cashiers cheque to the stable owner?

And yes, get professional legal advice ASAP!
 
#8 ·
Annanoel-
This is my first post and didn't understand how to post or where.
Ok this is the details.We were boardingand the owner of the stable was this womans best friend.We gave him the cashiers check the next morning andhe was to have the paperwork then but told us she would drop them off later that day after work but she didn't.We asked him for the cashiers check back and he flipped out and said he wouldn't give it to her until he got the papers.I left to go on a family trip and my hubby was taking care of it for me.I found out he gave it to her.I called him and demanded the papers by the end of the day.He had them but it was an out of state bill of sale and nothing original just copies.We have been trying to sort this out with Paint for 9 months and trying to get her to cooperate but she is lying to me and contradicting herself constantly.After speaking to the original owners and finding out she coukdnt sell her it just makes this even worse.Does this help you to understand a bit more? We did meet with owner and saw the horse.We were in the stall next to her for months.
 
#11 ·
Does the person who sold you the horse have the horse's actual papers in hand?

I agree with whoever said that first right of refusal won't stand up in court. The foal clause, however, might be more difficult to deal with. Is there a written contract between the person you bought the horse from and the previous owner?

If I were you, I'd be talking to a lawyer.
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#13 ·
There is a legal contract between the original owner and the person we bought her from but I have not seen it.I am hoping they will release this if we go to court but I'm worried we could loose money and our baby.We love this horse.I just don't know if the old owners will get involved OR even sign her over to me.She was given for free to the person I bought her from because she made so many promises.The original owners haven't heard from her in over a year but she told me they talked last week and they are working together to resolve this.
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#15 ·
The foal clause is the part of the contract where it stated that the original owner had first right of refusal OR got a foal out of the mare before she could be resold.
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#17 ·
Really, you're kind of in a holding pattern until the other two parties can resolve their end of it. Your ownership of the mare hinges on the outcome of their dispute.
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#18 ·
First of all, have you been paying for feed and care for this 9 months?

In livestock law, possession is indeed 9/10 of the law.

I would move this horse immediately to a place unknown to the BO, the original owner or the person that sold her to you. You have a LOT more leverage when you have the horse and a sizable bill against it.

I think, YOU should be the first person to file a suit for the original papers and transfer rather than wait for one of them to sue for possession.

Get this horse moved and fully in your possession. Do not tell the BO when or where you are going. Just GO!

Then, get a lawyer well versed in livestock and preferably horse law and by all means, be the aggressor.
 
#20 ·
Cherie-we have the mare at our house and she has been here for almost 4 months now in our barn.When we saw the seller would not cooperate with us,we took her and brought her home.She was only there while we built here.The previous owners cannot take her back at this time due to financial reasons and they are out of state.I offered to sell her back to them.And only because that is the right thing to do since they originally had 1st refusal.
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#29 ·
Cherie-we have the mare at our house and she has been here for almost 4 months now in our barn.When we saw the seller would not cooperate with us,we took her and brought her home.She was only there while we built here.The previous owners cannot take her back at this time due to financial reasons and they are out of state.I offered to sell her back to them.And only because that is the right thing to do since they originally had 1st refusal.
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Who is the recorded owner of the mare? That is the person who needs to fork over the papers.

If she is still in the name of the original owner, they can apply for duplicate papers.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Good for you.

I have never dealt with APHA, but AQHA will re-issue Registration papers with a court order if the courts rule that she is yours and you should have the papers. They may require DNA testing to prove that she is who she is supposed to be. The only times I have had to deal with this was with AQHA and at that time I only had to supply four photos of the horse and a copy of the court order. I just got the court order through small claims court and my total expenses (except for the board bills and training bills against the horse) was less than $100.00.

Added. I would first write APHA and tell them that the 'owner of record' will not give you the papers. Send them a copy of your Certified Check. Tell them that they will not give you the original papers and a transfer. They will ask their side of the story and will demand the papers from them or threaten them with sanctions and/or they will be denied APHA privileges.

Added some more. This IS NOT an 'illegal sale'. Don't call it that. No law was broken. It is strictly a Civil Matter. Possession and the most recent feed bill should over-ride everything else. You just need to be the aggressor.
 
#22 ·
Good for you.

I have never dealt with APHA, but AQHA will re-issue Registration papers with a court order if the courts rule that she is yours and you should have the papers. They may require DNA testing to prove that she is who she is supposed to be. The only times I have had to deal with this was with AQHA and at that time I only had to supply four photos of the horse and a copy of the court order. I just got the court order through small claims court and my total expenses (except for the board bills and training bills against the horse) was less than $100.00.
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#23 ·
Cherie-
Thanks for all your great info :)
I am going to be totally honest here and tell you I do want to go to court and I want her to pay deeply for what she has done.I want to sue her for $4,000 + boarding fees and training we had done and keep the horse.I don't think this is at all possible but I can dream lol
I would like to meet with an attorney to get info and put the case together and go at this alone because I know I can do it :)
Please be honest with me and tell me what YOU think I could accomplish by going to court.
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#24 ·
get an attornry and sue for your money. if the original owner gave the horse away get a copy of the paper work. does the BO have a letter of refusal ? also maybe work a deal with the original owner, to get a foal but put in writing they pay all stallion fees, Vet bills, and additional feed bills while the horse is preg and while nursing the foal.
 
#25 ·
I contacted the original owner a few hours ago and told her to email me the contract they had.Im hoping she will.If she doesn't do it this way I will have my attorney get it.I really need to see what it said so I know what my limits are in court.I am planning on having the owner of the barn (he also owns the feed store in town) served because he is the one that released my money and wrote the bill of sale.I know he is aware of this whole situation with the original owner due to the fact they are best friends.He is as much to blame if not more than she is.
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#26 ·
The original contract between the Original Owner and the second owner is not binding on you. It does not matter. You didn't sign it or into into this contract. She cannot make you do anything.

If she does not like the way things have turned out, she must sue the person that signed the contract. Again, it is a Civil Matter between them and you do not need to care what she thinks.

You must sue the person that took your money. They are the one you entered an 'unwritten agreement or contract' with. The second owner that she sold the horse was responsible for that part of that sale that was to deliver the papers to you.

You will have to talk to a lawyer, but I think any Civil action you take should name both of them as co-defendants.

I do not think you can have both the money back and the horse. I think you will have to sue for the papers and any actual monetary damages not having the papers has caused you. I do not know about your state, but the states I have lived in have had $5000.00 limits on suits you can bring in 'Small Claims Court'. Anything else requires full legal papers and legal representation.
 
#27 ·
Do you want the horse or do you want your $4000 back? You can't have both.

Most first right of refusal clauses are not enforceable, nor is the foal clause, most likely.

You have a bill of sale, why can't you transfer her yourself? Clause or no clause, the person who sold you the horse DID legally own her. Any clause broken between that person and the past owner doesn't concern you.

I wouldn't so quick to bring a lawsuit to "make them pay." YOU might be the one who ends up paying. You could end up with no horse, no $4000, and a bunch of legal fees.
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#28 ·
I think you need to speak to a legal professional ASAP.
I dont know how US law works but I ended up in a similar situation when someone sold me a horse that was pretty much a useless case as far as riding went when I got him. After several years of hard work to turn him around I was confronted at a show by the real owner who had actually only loaned the horse to the woman who sold him to me - he hadnt wanted the horse either as he couldnt handle him but as soon as he saw the change he wanted him back
Essentially I had no say in it as it was between them to fight it out in court, the horse was returned to its original owner and though I fought for my money back I only got part of it and nothing at all to reflect all the time and money I'd spent. I wont even go into the heartbreak.
I hope you can resolve things with a happier result
Good luck
 
#30 ·
Thank you for clarifying! As you've said you have the horse in YOUR barn, it sounds like you have a bill of sale too. The only thing you don't have are the papers. So as Nik said you can't have both. If you have the horse and want to keep it, which it sounds like you do, then just work on getting the papers.
Even though you didn't have to offer it was great that you offered the horse back to the original owners.

Again though I wouldn't make a big deal and try to get revenge by her paying. You have your horse you just don't have the papers.
 
#32 ·
I agree with churembeque. It sounds like the people you are dealing with need a "come to Jesus" moment of their own. I would file a lawsuit or at least send a certified letter stating that if they don't resolve it by xyz date then you will sue. A lot of people give in when they realize you're serious.

It sounds to me like everyone in this situation has only their own interests at heart, doesn't care a bit about you or resolving the situation and is just trying to cause trouble.
 
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