A sticky situation with a stallion, mare, and unborn foal.
 
 

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A sticky situation with a stallion, mare, and unborn foal.

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    12-19-2009, 11:09 PM
  #1
Foal
A sticky situation with a stallion, mare, and unborn foal.

Okay, I own an AQHA Grullo/Roan stallion named Smoke. In the spring I boarded him with a woman who had him turned out with her mare, Karlee. She wanted a baby, but no papers were ever drawn up between us because Smoke was sold to me as possibly/most likely infertile. We knew the chances weren't high that he could produce, but we wanted to try anyway, and if it was confirmed that she was bred, we'd figure something out.
Now we didn't think much of it, but recently I was informed that Karlee is bred, but we're not sure who is the father. Toward the end of the time I was boarding with this woman, let's call her Lucy, she bought a Palomino KMSH who was gelded a few weeks/a month prior to her purchase. They were in the same pasture, and she doesn't know if they bred or not. She said that Karlee let Smoke mount and breed, but she refused the Palomino every time, which she didn't think much of, but now wonders if it meant she was bred.

Anyway, the problem is this...she has since sold the mare, without telling the man that she could possibly be bred. The man informed her that she was, and he wants to sell her for financial purposes. Now we cannot be sure it is Smoke's baby, but do I have any rights in this situation. I was talking with an experienced breeder, and he said that if the mare is bred, and a DNA test shows that the baby is his, that I am owed a stud fee, or rights to the foal. Now I don't want to sue anyone here, but I'd really like to know if Smoke will have a baby on the ground or not.
     
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    12-19-2009, 11:43 PM
  #2
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Legacy    
Okay, I own an AQHA Grullo/Roan stallion named Smoke. In the spring I boarded him with a woman who had him turned out with her mare, Karlee. She wanted a baby, but no papers were ever drawn up between us because Smoke was sold to me as possibly/most likely infertile. We knew the chances weren't high that he could produce, but we wanted to try anyway, and if it was confirmed that she was bred, we'd figure something out.
Now we didn't think much of it, but recently I was informed that Karlee is bred, but we're not sure who is the father. Toward the end of the time I was boarding with this woman, let's call her Lucy, she bought a Palomino KMSH who was gelded a few weeks/a month prior to her purchase. They were in the same pasture, and she doesn't know if they bred or not. She said that Karlee let Smoke mount and breed, but she refused the Palomino every time, which she didn't think much of, but now wonders if it meant she was bred.

Anyway, the problem is this...she has since sold the mare, without telling the man that she could possibly be bred. The man informed her that she was, and he wants to sell her for financial purposes. Now we cannot be sure it is Smoke's baby, but do I have any rights in this situation. I was talking with an experienced breeder, and he said that if the mare is bred, and a DNA test shows that the baby is his, that I am owed a stud fee, or rights to the foal. Now I don't want to sue anyone here, but I'd really like to know if Smoke will have a baby on the ground or not.
I would say you have no or limited rights.

Assuming the foal is a product of your stallion here are my reasons....

First you never made any agreement with the mare owner at the time the mare was bred. "was to be worked out later" is not a meeting of the minds required for a contract to be enforcable.


Two the mare was sold to the new owner and since the vague verbal agreement was with the original mare owner and the new owner was never a party to this "agreement" he would not be required to honour any final agreement you may decide on (which is very tenuous at best).

So basically you will have to be satisfied if this is your foal that your stallion is not infertile and maybe the new owner will send you pictures so you can use them for advertising your stallion.

Just a note....the new mare owner (and foal owner) cannot persue papers unless some agreement is worked out between yourself and them. Any papers (if possible) would belong to the original mare owner and it would have to be her that would sign them over. Standard practice is the foal belongs to the mare owner at the time of breeding.
     
    12-20-2009, 12:11 AM
  #3
Foal
Thank you very much for that information, it was very helpful. It's likely that the father can be determined by color alone. A Palomino or a Grullo/Roan known for his prominent roan and dun markings.
     
    12-20-2009, 07:57 PM
  #4
Green Broke
Phantom Legacy, while I agree with everything that Spyder has said, I just want to share with you two accidental breeding's and what the court ruled.

Without going into great detail, two mares at two different facilities where accidentally bred. Both left the facilities prior to the births. Once the owners of the stallions discovered that the mares had been bred, again, accidentally, they demanded either the foal or the cost of a stud fee.

Now remember, each owner of the mares did not want their mares bred. What the court ruled in each instance was...

1. Surrender the foal to the stallions owner and be reimbursed for the added costs during pregnancy/delivery.

OR

2. Keep the foal and pay the stud fee.

One paid the stud fee and one surrendered the foal.

For some reason here in Maine, horse related issues are hard to predict when brought to court. Perhaps it's all in how it is presented? I've known other outcomes that have left me just scratching my head in wonder.
     

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