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Stuck in dangerous boarding facility!

This is a discussion on Stuck in dangerous boarding facility! within the Horse Law forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • Is it ok to break a boarding contract if a horse is in danger
  • Intent to leave horse boarding

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    12-17-2011, 08:33 AM
  #21
Trained
I am with the group who says leave now, talk later. I would not give him a second with my horse after he thinks I may leave. So, go find a safe place to take your horse and move him NOW. No letters, talking, etc until after your horse and belongings are safe. You never know how crazy people can be, and he sounds borderline to begin with.
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    12-18-2011, 07:20 AM
  #22
Banned
Ummm....folks, did I misread this or did the OP say the contract she signed is until MAY?????


This could complicate matters alot.....per my understanding of what she wrote, she is OBLIGATED and bound to this contract for FIVE MORE MONTHS.....

Legally speaking, paying the thirty days and leaving is NOT fulfilling her obligation...she will need to pay her monthly board bill times five to absolve herself of all further obligations to this barn owner. In other words if she signed a contract stating that she would be financially obligated to this property owner until may, the only way to fulfill her contract is to pay the remainder of her contract which is for five more months.

As for contesting this in court. I would not be so complacent in thinking the BO wouldn't take her to court.....in fact, I'd be inclined to think he would. Because she signed that she owes him until May, and not knowing how much her monthly board is, even if it is only 200 dollars a month....she still would owe him a thousand dollars. MOST people are not just going to let a thousand dollars get away....DON'T believe it for a second.

As for contesting the contract, yes, if things are as she says and she has proof, she could try..... but negligence is a hard thing to prove. He could say the equipment was only in the aisle for a day or week, he could make excuses about the hay also, that he got a bad shipment, or that it had just turned moldy and was about to be replaced, etc..... to contest this contract in court, she is going to need a rock solid defense, which will include credible witnesses, thorough documentation of continued unsafe conditions...and a good lawyer.

What an awful mess...... I agree with Wyominggrandma, why in the world did you sign a contract that far ahead??? Most boarding contracts are a single month by month....not year by year.....

Sure, we all want to say "leave now, talk later" or "get your horse out today", but the fact of the matter is that she signed a contract stating that she would be a source of income for this BO until May....skipping out on the deal could very likely end her up in court, AND could cost her the horse if the ruling goes against her and she cannot pay the thousand dollars...or more, depending on her monthly board.....that she owes this BO. Because the facts are: legally speaking, if she skips out now, she owes this BO at least a thousand dollars....and if you think he/she won't "bother" with taking someone to court for that amount of money, you are dead wrong.
     
    12-18-2011, 10:28 AM
  #23
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauseant    
ummm....folks, did I misread this or did the OP say the contract she signed is until MAY?????


This could complicate matters alot.....per my understanding of what she wrote, she is OBLIGATED and bound to this contract for FIVE MORE MONTHS.....

Legally speaking, paying the thirty days and leaving is NOT fulfilling her obligation...she will need to pay her monthly board bill times five to absolve herself of all further obligations to this barn owner. In other words if she signed a contract stating that she would be financially obligated to this property owner until may, the only way to fulfill her contract is to pay the remainder of her contract which is for five more months.

As for contesting this in court. I would not be so complacent in thinking the BO wouldn't take her to court.....in fact, I'd be inclined to think he would. Because she signed that she owes him until May, and not knowing how much her monthly board is, even if it is only 200 dollars a month....she still would owe him a thousand dollars. MOST people are not just going to let a thousand dollars get away....DON'T believe it for a second.

As for contesting the contract, yes, if things are as she says and she has proof, she could try..... but negligence is a hard thing to prove. He could say the equipment was only in the aisle for a day or week, he could make excuses about the hay also, that he got a bad shipment, or that it had just turned moldy and was about to be replaced, etc..... to contest this contract in court, she is going to need a rock solid defense, which will include credible witnesses, thorough documentation of continued unsafe conditions...and a good lawyer.

What an awful mess...... I agree with Wyominggrandma, why in the world did you sign a contract that far ahead??? Most boarding contracts are a single month by month....not year by year.....

Sure, we all want to say "leave now, talk later" or "get your horse out today", but the fact of the matter is that she signed a contract stating that she would be a source of income for this BO until May....skipping out on the deal could very likely end her up in court, AND could cost her the horse if the ruling goes against her and she cannot pay the thousand dollars...or more, depending on her monthly board.....that she owes this BO. Because the facts are: legally speaking, if she skips out now, she owes this BO at least a thousand dollars....and if you think he/she won't "bother" with taking someone to court for that amount of money, you are dead wrong.
Sorry-I still disagree. There are also other boarders or so she says, so that means it is more than her word against his. I don't believe that the guy would take her to court, and personally, I would take the chance. I have enough lawyer friends that I would take the horse, and most likely have one of my lawyer buddies write the guy a letter, just to let him know it is not even worth a try, but, then again, I have sued GM (and won) played hard ball with the town in NY and won.......so not many cross me any more. I take no prisoners.
     
    12-18-2011, 11:36 AM
  #24
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans    
I have enough lawyer friends

Uh huh....but the OP may not. And I highly urge her to use caution in her decisions on this matter....and so should YOU as someone having dealt extensively with the legal system!!!

Human nature is human nature and few people that I personally know would let a thousand bucks slip through their fingers without a fight!!!!

AND proving the equipment is in the aisle is easy. Proving how long the BO had it there or intended to keep it there is a bit more difficult to prove.

Same with the hay, proving it is moldy is easy.....Proving WHEN it started to mold or WHEN the BO intended to replace it is much harder to prove.


Franknbeans: you are doing the OP no favor by encouraging her to break a contract she signed and ASSUME that the BO will not sue for the remainder of the money owed, per the contract, which IS definitely not small change.


JUST MY OPINION....
     
    12-18-2011, 11:48 AM
  #25
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauseant    
Uh huh....but the OP may not. And I highly urge her to use caution in her decisions on this matter....and so should YOU as someone having dealt extensively with the legal system!!!

Human nature is human nature and few people that I personally know would let a thousand bucks slip through their fingers without a fight!!!!

AND proving the equipment is in the aisle is easy. Proving how long the BO had it there or intended to keep it there is a bit more difficult to prove.

Same with the hay, proving it is moldy is easy.....Proving WHEN it started to mold or WHEN the BO intended to replace it is much harder to prove.


Franknbeans: you are doing the OP no favor by encouraging her to break a contract she signed and ASSUME that the BO will not sue for the remainder of the money owed, per the contract, which IS definitely not small change.


JUST MY OPINION....
Yup-and I am entitled to mine. I know very few people who would spend thousands (yes, that is plural) to gain relatively little return. Most will not bother, let alone the time involved. Remember, there is no guarantee even if you win, that you will be awarded your costs, so to spend thousandS on legal fees over a thousand (for example) is not usually a good business decision.
Besides, this is a small claims type case, so pretty piddly in the eyes of the legal system.
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    12-18-2011, 12:03 PM
  #26
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans    
Yup-and I am entitled to mine. I know very few people who would spend thousands (yes, that is plural) to gain relatively little return. Most will not bother, let alone the time involved. Remember, there is no guarantee even if you win, that you will be awarded your costs, so to spend thousandS on legal fees over a thousand (for example) is not usually a good business decision.
Besides, this is a small claims type case, so pretty piddly in the eyes of the legal system.
Posted via Mobile Device
But not so piddly in the eyes of the BO possibly....

My opinion stands: you and I DO NOT know or have read the full contract. You and I DO NOT know what the BO is capable of. You and I DO NOT know if she can successfully defend her case in court.


What we DO know is that taking her horse and bolting IS LEGALLY a breach of contract. We DO know that the BO has every RIGHT< LEGALLY> to sue for the money owed him.

You and I DO KNOW that almost every boarding contract includes a clause which PUTS A LIEN ON THE HORSE if the contract is broken.....

You can say you've never seen one stating this, and you probably will..... but EVERY SINGLE boarding contract I have seen includes this clause!!!! How many have I seen? Literally near a hundred, as we spent almost a year searching for a new barn, and during our search NO PLACE was considered unless I had a boarding contract at my disposal to read through thoroughly!!!! EVERY SINGLE ONE stated that if money was owed, a lien would be placed on the horse.....

You do not know if her contract states this, and in urging her to take the horse and go, you are giving her advice without knowlege of the stipulations.

I've had many boarding contracts pass through my hands, read for consideration, and passed into the garbage in the year we spent searching for a suitable facility.....they are not worthless pieces of paper .... they are not to be discounted and broken randomly. And while most BOs won't sue for a month of board if you take your horse and bolt without a 30 days notice, the whole variable of the situation changes DRAMATICALLY when the broken contract GUARANTEES the BO 5 months of board!!! The cost of which is well OVER a thousand dollars.....

And yes, we are all entitled to our own opinions. And in MY opinion, franknbeans, YOU are not giving the OP good sound legal counsel!
     
    12-18-2011, 12:30 PM
  #27
Trained
And, as I said, I AM NOT A LAWYER, so legal COUNSEL is not my intent, and unless YOU are, it should not be yours either. You and I will have to agree to disagree, and the OP will have to do what they feel they need to.
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    12-18-2011, 12:40 PM
  #28
Trained
As I stated in my very first post on this thread-I AM NOT A LAWYER, so legal COUNSEL would not be my intent, nor should it be the intent of anyone here, unless they are licensed in the jurisdiction being discussed, and know all the details of the situation. The OP is quite capable of making their own decision, I am sure
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    12-18-2011, 12:41 PM
  #29
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans    
And, as I said, I AM NOT A LAWYER, so legal COUNSEL is not my intent, and unless YOU are, it should not be yours either. You and I will have to agree to disagree, and the OP will have to do what they feel they need to.
Posted via Mobile Device
The legal counsel statement was meant in a lighthearted manner .... hmmm....guess that failed in it's intent.

OF COURSE, neither of us are lawyers...and we are both giving our opinions, BUT as someone who said they have had extensive experience with the legal system workings, you should know that breach of contract is a serious legality, AND that OFTENTIMES boarding contracts put a lien on a horse if the contract is broken or money is owed. You also KNOW, that from a legal standpoint, if the OP takes her horse and flees FIVE MONTHS before the contract ends, she LEGALLY owes her BO that five months board!!!

Whether he will pursue the money owed him, which is likely well over a thousand dollars depending on her board price, is anyone's guess!!!

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.....but if there is a lien stated in that contract, it is risking the loss of her horse to ASSUME he wont' pursue her in court!!! Depending on the OP's attachment to her horse, that may well be too great of a risk to take.
     
    12-18-2011, 01:47 PM
  #30
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUEque    
I am currently under a boarding contract until the end of May but since I have been at this barn (since August) the quality and care has EXTREMELY declined. The owner's son now works with the horses and has absolutely no experience around horses...
Here is the first bit of confusion:

You have a contract with the barn owner - or his son?

You have been negotiating for the replacement of moldy hay with the owner - or his son?

Who own the tools all over the barn aisles? The barn owner or the son?


I think - if you haven't already...you need to address this issue directly with the owner - and point out that his worker (the son) is creating problems that will force you to look for a new barn.

Also - what about replacing the hay for your horse yourself...and deducting the expense from your next board check with a note? (After all, I'm sure the contract for boarding includes feed - if proper feed is not being provided, then you should be able to deduct that cost from your board fee.)

Just a thought...
     

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contract, hay, help needed, negligence

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