we signed ownership papers, is she actually in my name? - Page 2
 
 

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we signed ownership papers, is she actually in my name?

This is a discussion on we signed ownership papers, is she actually in my name? within the Horse Law forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • Do ineed papers for a horse given tome
  • How would I get papers on my arabian horse

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    10-28-2011, 09:44 PM
  #11
Started
The AQHA is one that will not demand someone give papers to the new owner. The owner may not want to send the papers with the horse for reasons I don't understand but when I talked to the AQHA about it they don't care if the papers follow the horse or not. The person who doesn't send the papers with the horse is suppose to let them know so that the papers aren't put on another horse but that is pretty hard to enforce I suppose.
     
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    10-29-2011, 10:01 AM
  #12
Green Broke
I would be surprised if the horse is even registered. That's most likely why she doesnt have the papers. Either that or she got the horse free with papers specifically to put the papers with another horse.
Also no way on this earth I would ever sign a bill of sale with strings attached. You basically got a worthless untrained horse for free, okj fair enough, but lets say you put several years of training into the horse and turn it into the greatest thing since sliced bread, you may still have a worthless horse because of the give back clause. Now this person profits from your training. Lesson learned don't do that again. But looking at the clause it says, "If you could not care for" you would give it back. If I put alot of training in the horse and wanted to sell it I would. If anythign was said, My response would be, "I am perfectly capable of caring for the horse and that isnt why I am selling it so I am under no obligation to give it back. Personally you got a free horse and I would pretty much just sever contact with the previous owner and not worry about it.
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    10-29-2011, 06:00 PM
  #13
Weanling
If the horse is off the track, then the trainer or owner at the time may not have passed papers on for a couple of reasons

1) so the horse can never be raced again
2) breed as stud broodmare or stallion(jockey club or what ever your county calls it)

These were the two reasons why we never passed papers on. Nothing against the new owners, just that some of the horse were very very well bred yet couldn't run out of site on a dark night. Some people think they are getting a bargain, take it to a trainer that shouldn't be training and the animal get abused trying to make run faster. Does not matter how much you hit a horse, it will not go faster!!!

As for the breeding side. Some horses my having a generic condition, passing it on to the next gen isn't doing the breed anything good. Mare and stallions with great breeding and not generic issues will go to stud.

I've seen geldings that couldn't run bought, papers passed on, back into training and suffer.


For me, getting a horse for free even with sign things over I still like to have dollar value on the animal, even if it is $1.
     
    10-29-2011, 11:03 PM
  #14
Showing
The papers for my Arabian hadn't been filed with two changes of ownership. I went around and around and was getting nowhere. Finally, I blurted out, how much money do you want. "$80". Great, I'll send asap. A transfer was sent to owner #2 since she'd printed her name on the back. Owner #3 didn't exist so horse was registered in my name. I was lucky as #2 had been my neighbor and I was able to get her new address for the registry.
     
    10-31-2011, 12:42 AM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d    
I would be surprised if the horse is even registered. That's most likely why she doesnt have the papers. Either that or she got the horse free with papers specifically to put the papers with another horse.
Also no way on this earth I would ever sign a bill of sale with strings attached. You basically got a worthless untrained horse for free, okj fair enough, but lets say you put several years of training into the horse and turn it into the greatest thing since sliced bread, you may still have a worthless horse because of the give back clause. Now this person profits from your training. Lesson learned don't do that again. But looking at the clause it says, "If you could not care for" you would give it back. If I put alot of training in the horse and wanted to sell it I would. If anythign was said, My response would be, "I am perfectly capable of caring for the horse and that isnt why I am selling it so I am under no obligation to give it back. Personally you got a free horse and I would pretty much just sever contact with the previous owner and not worry about it.
I'm sorry, but to be honest I am a bit offended by this. Maybe this isn't the way you meant it, just the way I took it.

And I hope you don't take any offense to this, I am really not trying to be rude here, but you don't know me or anything about me? I feel like maybe you're thinking I picked up this horse only because she was free and I wanted something cheap or for a resale or project. That was not and is not the case. I find it a little offensive you'd say a horse is worthless because of a give back clause (maybe I don't fully understand what you meant?), however, I went into this sale knowing full well what was included/not included/what have you. I don't see a horse as worthless because of a give back clause that probably will never come into play. And if it did, so what imho.

I also wasn't asking for suggestions on what to do if I decided to sell her someday down the road. Again, don't take this offensively please, I am only trying to clear up things on my end.

Just a side note as well; she is most certainly registered and the previous owner did not get her for free. =)

Edit: I realize the when you post a topic you will receive numerous replies, I may not like all of them. That's not at all what I am getting at here. I would ONLY like to clear up my end of things as well as the fact that yes she is certainly registered. I posted this topic in hopes to find out how I would go about receiving the mare's papers, etc etc. Again, I do realize that I may not agree with every reply in a topic, your reply just stood out to me as you spoke of my mare being worthless because she was free and I only wanted to clear up the fact that you have no idea how this sale came about, etc etc. =)
     
    10-31-2011, 01:07 AM
  #16
Trained
Contact the Jockey Club directly and ask them how to get duplicate papers on the horse with a bill of sale only. They will tell you what steps you need to follow and how much it will cost you, if anything.

People not sending on papers on animals they've bred is especially a hot button with me. You can learn a lot about a horse by studying its pedigree. I feel it's the horse's heritage and birth right. If you don't want the horse bred, then geld or spay it before you sell it. Or, don't sell it. JMHO, of course.
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    10-31-2011, 01:15 AM
  #17
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
Contact the Jockey Club directly and ask them how to get duplicate papers on the horse with a bill of sale only. They will tell you what steps you need to follow and how much it will cost you, if anything.

People not sending on papers on animals they've bred is especially a hot button with me. You can learn a lot about a horse by studying its pedigree. I feel it's the horse's heritage and birth right. If you don't want the horse bred, then geld or spay it before you sell it. Or, don't sell it. JMHO, of course.
Oh I completely agree!
I do plan on contacting the JC, I am hoping it wouldn't cost too much? I have already been able to view her pedigree online through the JC, though it would be nice to have it in hand.
     
    11-01-2011, 10:33 AM
  #18
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
Contact the Jockey Club directly and ask them how to get duplicate papers on the horse with a bill of sale only. They will tell you what steps you need to follow and how much it will cost you, if anything.
Dreamcatcher, the JC is nothing like the AHA. No fee will be required, since the JC doesn't actually reregister the horse in a new owner's name.

As I stated earlier, the only thing the old owner does is sign the papers and hand them over to the new owner. That's it. No reregistration. JC papers are only necessary if you're planning or racing, or breeding for the racetrack. If you plan to do neither, then they're essentially useless.

It's not like there are breed specific shows for TBs the way there are for Arabians. I know it's a difficult concept to wrap your head around if you've only dealt with breeds that have actual registration associations that keep track of changed owners through transferring the papers. As an Arabian owner I was also rather taken aback when I found out how TB papers are handled. It's a whole different set of rules.

OP, a bill of sale is fine to prove ownership. If your horse is tattooed on the upper lip, if you write down that number and contact the JC, they should be able to give you your horse's pedigree.
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    11-02-2011, 01:51 PM
  #19
Weanling
There's away around those clauses. If you have a give away clause then sell and if you have a sell back clause give away. I had a horse with the sell clause and didn't want her to go back to her previous owner for good reason so I gave her to the people who wanted her andI knew she would be well taken care of.
     
    11-02-2011, 01:52 PM
  #20
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
Dreamcatcher, the JC is nothing like the AHA. No fee will be required, since the JC doesn't actually reregister the horse in a new owner's name.

As I stated earlier, the only thing the old owner does is sign the papers and hand them over to the new owner. That's it. No reregistration. JC papers are only necessary if you're planning or racing, or breeding for the racetrack. If you plan to do neither, then they're essentially useless.

It's not like there are breed specific shows for TBs the way there are for Arabians. I know it's a difficult concept to wrap your head around if you've only dealt with breeds that have actual registration associations that keep track of changed owners through transferring the papers. As an Arabian owner I was also rather taken aback when I found out how TB papers are handled. It's a whole different set of rules.

OP, a bill of sale is fine to prove ownership. If your horse is tattooed on the upper lip, if you write down that number and contact the JC, they should be able to give you your horse's pedigree.
okay thanks, it all makes sense now =)

And like I said, it's just something I like to have in hand I suppose. Not that I plan on breeding her for the track or anything of the sort, it's just nice to have those papers.
     

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