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who's are they really?

7K views 44 replies 17 participants last post by  dbarabians 
#1 ·
Soo I have a couple horses here that are supposed to be someone elses.
I feed them, yes buy the feed myself. with my money. Have receipts.
any vet bills or whatever, I've paid. My money, my name signed on the forms.
they are on my property. The people never check on them, basically they are like my own. Everything done for/with I do.


they have like.. No receipts or anything for those horses in their name.

Soo if it came down to it...
Who's are they really.
If a problem happened and they tried to claim them or whatever. Could they ?
 
#2 ·
If they have a bill of sale and you don't then I imagine that they could, because the horses belong to them regardless of who pays their upkeep.

If they signed a contract with you stating that they were meant to pay a certain amount and you would feed/care for their horses then you could probably hold the horses until they pay the money, or claim ownership for owed money (although its probably a bit more complicated than that).

The best thing to do would be to get a bill of sale. Sometimes people just decide they want their horse back and will rock up and take it. One way would be to send them a letter outlining the money owed to you for their care and offer the accept the horses as payment, or ask that they pay the amount owing. If they're not that into horses they probably would just sign the papers to avoid the hassle. But this could just cause more problems if they get a lawyer to look into it and then just take their horses.
 
#4 ·
So basically, what you are saying is that these people own these horses but don't care for them. They are, I'm assuming, boarded on the property? Have they paid board, was there a boarding contract?

Short answer, no you can't claim them. If they came and decided to pick them up, there is nothing you could legally do to stop them.

If you are so worried about paying all the bills for these horses, then tell the owners that they need to start paying for feed/vet/farrier/etc and if they can't then they need to remove the horses from the property.
 
#6 ·
If you want to claim them as yours, you'll need to file a lien with the courts and claim the animals are abandoned. You'll be required to produce all receipts for feed, hay, vet, and farrier bills going back at least 24 months.

Even if you don't have a receipt for hay or the farrier, all the other receipts will prove that you've been providing care.

If you don't have a contract with these owners and don't want to go through the legalities of getting a court order pronouncing the horses as yours, then you don't have any way to prevent the owners from taking them.
 
#13 ·
Why are you wondering then? If it's a non-issue and you are willing to care, feed and vet someone else's horses, goody on you. If you're not, but you're doing it anyway, then you are being used. Maybe you'd like to have the horses and think that if you do all this stuff the owners will give them to you? If that's the case, then ask them.

I don't understand the point of the question based on the information that has been provided.
 
#8 ·
I've always heard that legally something is considered yours in the owners haven't been out in 30 days.
 
#9 ·
That definitely depends upon the "something"...

A house or a car would not become 'abandoned property' after only thirty days...but a smaller, less-valuable item like a fishing pole or cookware would qualify.

A horse? I do not think the thirty day rule would apply...
 
#11 ·
I checked into this at some point because I feared a boarder had abandoned their horse.

What I was told is that you must provide them a written notice to come get their horses. If they do not reply within so many days, you have the choice to contact the Sheriff's office or to claim the horse.
 
#12 ·
You can keep those receipts and if they choose to get the horses then you can request payment for your expenses.
If I were you I would politely tell them that they owe you for feeding and caring for the horses and that you will take the horses instead of payment.
If they choose to do this then you get a bill of sale.
If you post no trespassing signs then they cannot just randomly come on your property without permission. As the owner of the property you have a right to control who has access to it and when they can. Shalom
 
#14 ·
I dont know where you're located but you may want to look in to Stable Keeper Laws also may be known as agister laws, as you may actually have a case of owning the horses.

Im my state of Washington: Equine Legal Solutions - Boarding - Washington Law

RCW 60.56.010 provides Washington persons and businesses with an automatic lien on their customers’ horses to satisfy debts incurred in caring for or providing services to those horses, such as boarding and training. This type of lien is sometimes called an agister’s lien, and it means the facility can refuse to allow a customer’s horses to leave until the bill for those horses is paid in full.


Texas: Protecting Your Horse During a Dispute : Equine Law Blog

You're going to want to Google for your state, and the lien may not be automatic like they are here, but if the ammount you've spent care has not been recouped, you may very well have a couple of new horses.
 
#17 ·
I don't think this was rude at all, in fact I think the post she quoted was unnessisarily snarky. This is an absolutly valid question especially for this particular forum.

If the horses or on her land she is required to take care of them or she could be liable for animal cruelty if they are not taken care of, even if they do not belong to her.

Her land = her liability.

These Agister laws have been on the books about as long as country has been around, BECAUSE this was and is such a common problem. They CANNOT take the horses off of your property until they've paid the bills. The automatic lien says they are your horses until the outstanding bills are paid in full or they forfit ownership of the collateral (The horses).

Janna: You are doing the right thing. Working in Horse Rescue you would be surprised at the people who do get arrested and cited because the malnutritioned horses "don't belong to me."
Talk to a local horse specific rescue and they can get you connected with whatever resources you need to formalize taking possession of the lien.
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#18 ·
I don't think this was rude at all, in fact I think the post she quoted was unnessisarily snarky. This is an absolutly valid question especially for this particular forum.

If the horses or on her land she is required to take care of them or she could be liable for animal cruelty if they are not taken care of, even if they do not belong to her.

Her land = her liability.

These Agister laws have been on the books about as long as country has been around, BECAUSE this was and is such a common problem. They CANNOT take the horses off of your property until they've paid the bills. The automatic lien says they are your horses until the outstanding bills are paid in full or they forfit ownership of the collateral (The horses).

Janna: You are doing the right thing. Working in Horse Rescue you would be surprised at the people who do get arrested and cited because the malnutritioned horses "don't belong to me."
Talk to a local horse specific rescue and they can get you connected with whatever resources you need to formalize taking possession of the lien.
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The question may very well be valid, but so is the inquiry to know the motive. Regardless, leins aren't always automatic, and its not always cut and dry about them having to pay her to take THEIR horses. She hasnt answered if there is a boarding contract, which will make a big difference. not sure what you are getting defensive about... I think knowing where the mentality is coming from is a valid response to her OP.
 
#19 ·
Basically, I just wanted answer to the given information.

If the one with the bet bills in my name.
If i'm the one,with the feed bills. Basically everything in my name. They are on my property. And have nothing for them in their name. I wanted to know if anything went down, who would have a bigger advantage, in the end who could most likely end up with them, legally. Because right now it would be like someone walking up, saying random horse is theirs but with no proof, while I do have some things to back Me up.


Biggirlsridewarmbloods, thanks for that !
 
#26 ·
If the one with the bet bills in my name.
If i'm the one,with the feed bills. Basically everything in my name. They are on my property. And have nothing for them in their name. I wanted to know if anything went down, who would have a bigger advantage, in the end who could most likely end up with them, legally. Because right now it would be like someone walking up, saying random horse is theirs but with no proof, while I do have some things to back Me up.
Now maybe it's just me, but everything you just said here reeks of dishonesty, IMHO. That is what NorthernMama was talking about, I suspect. It sounds to me like you are wanting excuses to claim these horses as your own under the guise of "well, I've been caring for all their needs for x amount of time, so rightfully, they should be mine".

The fact is, these aren't your horses. If you are happy to continue to provide all their care in spite of them not belonging to you, then power to you. If you are tired of caring for them, then notify a lawyer and get the legal paperwork drawn up to either get them off your land or have the owners relinquish ownership of them to you.

I wanted to know if anything went down, who would have a bigger advantage, in the end who could most likely end up with them, legally.
^^That is what gets me the most. Advantage? They aren't your horses, you know they aren't your horses and those "legal" explanations you're looking for aren't "legal" at all because that would include lying.
 
#20 ·
If there is no contract between you and these people I would gather they could come and get them whenever they wanted . You could take them to court and if you can't produce some sort of contract saying they would pay you x amount of dollars or would pay back for any bills ect I would say you are s.o.l. The system can be tricky sometimes , you need to have everything in writting in order for anything to hold up in court. Have you even mentioned this to the people that owned them , you know about the vet bills and buying feed ? How long of a period of time are we talking that they haven't been out to see them ? And why haven't you talked to them about this?
 
#25 ·
If you let go on for so long and not talked to them about it , then it's not entirely their fault. I mean no offence but 3 years is a long time to go to pay for someone elses horses and personally I wouldn't have done it no where near that long and I would have got some sort of contract saying they would pay for all vet bills and feed. I am a good hearted person and love to help anyone but 3 years is a bit much? I would def talk to them about this and make some sort of other arrangements , that could be they either take them or they sign some sort of contract saying they will start paying on this stuff , or just give up ownership.
 
#27 ·
What could hypothetically go down that would call ownership into question? The only thing I can think of is if they wanted to move their horses? Do you mean if an emergency occurred and the horses ended up loose and needing to be claimed?

In the end though, the horses belong to them no matter how many vet invoices and receipts you have. I guess they may have trouble proving ownership if you decided to lie in court and claim they have always been yours?
 
#28 ·
There is always a way for the truth to come out and I am sure they have got pictures of them from previous years and who knows , they may even still know the people that they got the horses from ... You never know ? I am gathering that these people are your friends or something and that you didn't let complete strangers leave their horses with you ...What started this all to begin with, how did you end up with the horses 3 years ago and why ? What was said about feeding and vet bills? Surely there was some sort of conversation about this? People just don't drop off horses without permission and say ok here ya go !
 
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