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Best high energy/high protein feed with least bulk/weight

This is a discussion on Best high energy/high protein feed with least bulk/weight within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • How many mcals in 3 gallons of oats

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    02-22-2013, 06:30 PM
  #21
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand Percherons    
You should start with whomever
Can the mill that makes the cubes add oil to the binding agent? Adding 5% oil will increase the caloric value to 1.15Mcal/#. It's not going to increase the volume you transport but now you've managed to add a few more calories. A small mill is not going to want to lose your business and if you're talking 10+T of product it's so worth their while to work with you. What's a batch size for them? That will probably be what they want to make in a run.
Ok I wrote this out and understand it a bit more (I'm terrible with math), however I'm confused with one thing - you say adding 5% oil will increase the caloric value to 1.15Mcal per pound.... are you saying that if you added 5% oil to ALFALFA cubes it would be increased to 1.15, or if you added oil to oats?

... because you say that a "typical" senior feed is ~1.5Mcal already.

Orrrrr are you saying that adding 5% oil to a senior feed will ADD 1.15Mcal per pound?
     
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    02-22-2013, 06:58 PM
  #22
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I think the oil is still your best bet.
2 1/2 gallons would be enough for all the horses for one day versus a pelleted feed or something that if you're feeding around 2 cups (which is half the recommended daily for most of them) that's 44 cups a day which is over 3 gallons and you're getting fewer calories. Go with the full recommended daily 4 cups and then you're at over 6 gallons per day. As opposed to feeding 2/5 of a cup of oil to each horse a day and that's only 2.5 gallons per day. And if they only need 1/4 of a cup per day, the one jug will last you almost 2 days.
There are just two problems with this...

#1 the weight - but that said, I still need to look into how much it REALLY weighs (like, per calorie if you will), so maybe it's not too bad.

#2 I need to find something that can be pre-mixed and ready to go when we buy it (IDEALLY), or at least simple for us to mix up in big batches at the beginning of the season. It sounds silly, but when there is a large string of horses to round up (which includes finding them in the morning which can sometimes take hours), saddle, pack, etc along with breaking/setting up camp, making meals, etc etc ect that comes along with being out there each day.... stuff needs to be kept to a minimum. It doesn't seem like a lot of extra work, but I can for sure see guides neglecting it.

That said, I'll definitely keep it in mind because you're right - as far as calories go, it's pretty ideal!
     
    02-22-2013, 08:33 PM
  #23
Super Moderator
From what you say the problems I could see with oil is that it would be really hard to get it evenly distributed unless you mixed each feed individually as when you pour it on to dry feed its going to absorb and 'clump' really fast so chances are high that some would get more than others if you tried to mix it into one large bulk feed to split up between them all later on which is what some big yards do
Since you feed off the ground any dust and fine grit is likely to attach to the oily feed more than it would to dry feed
If it was mixed too far in advance - even several days in hot weather exposed to the air oil tends to go rancid
If you can get around these things then it could be ideal
     
    02-22-2013, 08:50 PM
  #24
Showing
The problem with pouring feed on the ground is a few aren't getting their share and a few will be getting the majority.
     
    02-22-2013, 09:45 PM
  #25
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
The problem with pouring feed on the ground is a few aren't getting their share and a few will be getting the majority.
agreed when they're fed loose, but generally they're given oats in the morning and are tied up for feeding usually.

Either way though, it does cause some waste. But it's definitely not an option to carry feed tubs.
     
    02-22-2013, 10:14 PM
  #26
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowCowgirl    
Ok I wrote this out and understand it a bit more (I'm terrible with math), however I'm confused with one thing - you say adding 5% oil will increase the caloric value to 1.15Mcal per pound.... are you saying that if you added 5% oil to ALFALFA cubes it would be increased to 1.15, or if you added oil to oats?

... because you say that a "typical" senior feed is ~1.5Mcal already.

Orrrrr are you saying that adding 5% oil to a senior feed will ADD 1.15Mcal per pound?
You will increase the alfalfa cube to 1.15 Mcal per # up from 1 Mcal/# for the average alfalfa cubes. You might be able to mix more in but at some point, they will not hold together. The oats come in at 1.3 Mcal per # straight up. The problem with adding or pouring oil over whole unprocessed oats is most of it will end up on the ground because the outer shell is hard and the oil will not soak in or coat it. Put your average portion of oats in a bucket. Now pour oil over the top. Dump the oats in a feed pan. How much oil is in the bottom of the bucket? That's what's going to end up on the ground wasted. One gallon of oil weighs 8# and contains 32 Mcals. It has to be simple or it's not going to happen. There just isn't any other way to feed a string of horses than to dump and go. Some are always going to get more than other but you just don't have the time or resources of manage each horse as an individual. Don't forget, with a feed sack you can burn it when it's empty but a plastic container has to be packed out.

Senior feed out of the bag comes in around 1.5 Mcal/#. I would think you would want to meet that amount with any range cube you formulate. What price per ton you can get it made for is going to be dependent upon what the raw products cost. Around me feed prices have almost doubled in the past 2 years (alfalfa has gone from $125/ton to close to $300/ton today) and I can get a complete feed milled for $410/ton. (up about $145)
     
    02-23-2013, 07:42 PM
  #27
Weanling
Dang lady, you're good! Little things that I wouldn't have thought of...

I wonder if it would be a bad idea to just go with a senior feed, in place of the oats. So they'd be free to graze all night, and in the morning instead of oats would get seniors feed instead. Later in the season we'd start 'em on the alfalfa cubes and continue with senior feed in place of oats.

Just a thought. I'm still going to find out where exactly the feed store up here gets their stuff from and see about having something custom made... at least price it out
     
    02-23-2013, 09:30 PM
  #28
Started
You're going to have a hard time competing pricewise with oats if you buy them right out of the field. With a big name senior feed, you are paying for a lot of slick ads and extensive research. You should get a price break on anything you buy by the pallet (typically one ton). I'd pursue a locally milled product first. It will save on transportation and all the other nonsense. How many tons of each product are you using? That will give you an idea of how many Mcals you need for the season and when you need it. How much product can you transport at any given time? Oats are going to be the most bulky feed but is it a set weight, volume or a combination of the 2? You might be able to feed a cheaper product (oats) when it's the only thing being fed but when you need to start adding serious calories, than you need to swap them out for a pelleted feed that is less bulky and more calorie dense. I don't think oats by themselves are ideal as the horses are lacking salt, vitamins, minerals and protein (I would add it here to get back on topic). If you are buying bagged oats from a feed store, with enough product purchased at once, you can get them to add these to the oats (pellet form or it will settle on the bottom of the bag) so you are only dealing with one product.
     

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