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Cushings Diet

3K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
What is the recommended diet for a horse that might have cushings? She is a Welsh Pony about 14 hh. Has 24/7 access to pasture in central Florida.
 
#2 ·
Low NSC, high fiber diets are recommended for horses or pony's with Cushing's (PPID). You'll need to have your hay tested and most likely your pasture as well to make sure it's not to high in sugars. Typically beet pulp and low sugar grass hays are fed.
 
#3 ·
First thing you need to do is get the pony tested for Cushing's because starting treatment now could prolong her life
You should also test for IR and thyroid function because starting a management regime or medication ASAP will be the difference between having a useful pony or a one with increasingly severe problems
Having spent most of my life in the UK with welsh ponies I can tell you that they might be native ponies that you would want to live the 'natural' life so having them out on pasture 24/7 seems ideal but the reality is that the areas these ponies originate from is anything but good pasture, they had to thrive on poor grass in the summer and next to nothing in the winter months. If your grazing is rich and abundant its a sure fire way to give her laminitis even if she doesn't have Cushing's or IR
 
#4 ·
Equine Cushings & Insulin Resistance Group. Ditto others. Start with either getting her off the pasture, onto soaked & drained hay, unless you can get tested 'low NSC' hay, or put a grazing muzzle on her, to cut down her intake drastically(without leaving her to go hungry). Feeding turmeric and magnesium in a little coconut oil in a little beet pulp or copra, is one measure that really helps inflammation. What are her symptoms? I'm guessing she's overweight, for one?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Pearl is definitely over weight. Other than that she is healthy. The vet said she looked fine at his last visit. Our farrier said to have her tested for Cushings the next time the vet was out. He said not a real priority but when they are over weight and have a thick bit of fat under their mane, it's a good idea to have them tested. I've tried to control her weight by giving less and less grain but the weight doesn't seem to go away.
Our pasture is pathetic. She doesn't get lush grass. She is getting costal/bahaia hay, alfalfa pellets and allstock grain right now. She doesn't need much and I don't give her much. 1lb 2x a day on the grain and about half that on the alfalfa pellets.

Sounds like in the mean time she needs to be off the grain and get some beet pulp. Do I just start switching out the grain for beet pulp 1:1 ratio? Should she have more alfalfa pellets (soaked)? How is the pasture testing done? Our grass is bahaia and weeds.
 
#14 · (Edited)
You wonder why she won't loose weight and you're feeding her hay/pasture AND alfalfa AND grain?

And why would you add beet pulp if you got rid of the grain? So confused.

Esp as she's fat ditch the grain and get her a good vitamin/mineral supplement instead. Cut the alfalfa out, that is doing nothing but making her fatter. Just hay and a supplement.

If the pasture is poor be aware that stressed grass is worse then "normal" grass. It may be good to limit pasture or put a grazing muzzle on her.

How old is she?

It definitely wouldn't hurt to test and at least talk to your vet, they can definitely answer these questions for you :)

And no-NO alfalfa pellets. ONLY hay. Treats don't matter too much as they should only be fed as treats, but the less sugar/starch the better.

I would find a well balanced vitamin/mineral supplement for horses on hay, THEN depending on how much Mg is in that I would add a separate supplement of pure Mg. I don't like the one you linked as it's not well balanced for overall health.

Stop ALL extra feed. If she is that fat you really need to be proactive about this, as I said, it's no wonder she's not losing weight. 1-1.5% of her ideal body weight of hay (depending on how fat she is) working up to 1.5-2% as she loses weight, and NOTHING else.
 
#6 ·
It sounds like, if she's so obviously overweight, has hard 'fat pads', she is not just overweight but obese. And very likely insulin resistant/EMS. I don't get why on earth you're feeding her ANY grain or alfalfa at all?? Those are both high energy/calorie feeds, and grain is also high sugar/starch, which will be contributing greatly to metabolic issues! No, if she's overweight, you don't need to replace those things with anything, except for literally a single handful of beet pulp or alfalfa pellets moistened, to mix any nutritional supps with.

I'd definitely be giving her extra magnesium, along with whatever else she may need. Magnesium has been shown to be deficient in most diets anyway, and when horses(or people) are on high carb diets, more magnesium is used, so needed. And when an animal(or person) is in stress, particularly chronic, including systemic stress, such as IR/diabetes, they use/need more too. Magnesium has been shown in people, to help 'reset' the metabolism, resensitise the body to insulin in type 2 diabetes. From that research we have found the same is true for horses. So... look into it & it's one mineral that's worth adding on top of a 'well balanced diet', especially for a horse like yours.

Not sure about your hay - depends a lot on how it's grown/cut, as well as what type, but if you get a regular/big supply, I'd say it's worth testing, to see if it's low NSC. If it's not, or you're not sure, I'd be soaking & draining it before feeding, to leech out some of the sugars. If your pasture is overgrazed/stressed, this will be higher in sugar than healthy grass. It doesn't matter how lush it is(water content), but how rich it is, and stressed, overgrazed grass can be quite concentrated.

Exercise, as with people, is another important way of losing weight & getting healthy. I'd be taking her out a couple of times a day for a long walk with a fair bit of trotting too, as she can handle without getting too pooped.
 
#7 ·
Okay, I'll get her off the grain. I have the alfalfa pellets and I can pick some beet pulp up shortly. I've started getting her to walk each day for 15 minutes. She's about as resistant to exercise as any human who really needs it. The first few days she was pooped after our walk but now seems to be more okay with it. I'll start adding a second ride and see how that goes. I'll have to look into the magnesium.

Are there any treats that are okay for her to have? I've stopped giving apples and tried celery but she's not fond of that. Are carrots okay?

I do appreciate the help. I've had goats a few years but Pearl is my first horse. Love her to death but I'm not as knowledgeable about horses.
 
#9 ·
Okay, I'll get her off the grain. I have the alfalfa pellets and I can pick some beet pulp up shortly. I've started getting her to walk each day for 15 minutes. She's about as resistant to exercise as any human who really needs it. ...
Are there any treats that are okay for her to have? I've stopped giving apples and tried celery but she's not fond of that. Are carrots okay?
No need to get beet pulp, to replace anything - she doesn't need it.

Resistant to exercise - fitness-wise, unless she's morbidly obese & been totally sedentary, she shouldn't be resistant to & 'pooped' with just a 15 min walk! Laminitis(sore, inflamed feet) tends to go hand in hand with obesity, horses fed grain, IR & cushings. I'd suspect that's the most likely cause of her 'resistance'. In which case, DO NOT force her to exercise!! It is hurting her & likely doing further damage to her hooves!

I'd keep her on soft footing, take her off all high carb feed, and find a farrier/trimmer *experienced at successful rehab* to ensure her feet are well trimmed & mechanics won't causes further issue. Consider having a vet check her out. So long as the acute inflammation has subsided & mechanics are such that no further damage will be done(eg no undue load on walls, esp at toes, no high heels), then exercise ASAP is still important, but unless under direct vets advice, never try to force exercise onto a sore horse. Encourage it, and try to get her comfortable, with hoof padding/boots or staying on soft footing, but don't force it.

If you'd like to post hoof pics, for us to give opinions on specifics, check out the link in my signature for what angles are required.
 
#8 ·
Sounds like you're in about the same situation I am with my little horse. Would never realize that pasture was bad for them, but if you read a book called The Natural Horse, which talks about their evolution and how amazing their bodies are to turn the worst kinds of forage into speed and energy, it will help you realize that we can easily kill them with too much pasture. Most pasture grasses are intended for cows, who need the sugar.

Your little horse might do fine on just poor pasture, or at the most just a little hay added, but why add anything else until her weight and energy levels are good? It's really hard to do, mine hate being in the dry lot most of the time, but I think their weight is looking better now. Someone gave me a website, think it's called safergrass.org, Kathryn Watts, which has a huge amount of good and easy to read information about best ways to feed horses. It can be a bit scary to find all these things out, but enjoy the learning!
 
#11 ·
^Yep, thanks for mentioning that other website for Glory, Llama. Also both of you should check out Mayfield Barehoof Care Centre Home Page & if you can stretch to it, I HIGHLY recommend their book 'The Pony That Did Not Die' as really valuable information on managing/avoiding/treating laminitis & founder. Including dietary/metabolic aspects. Andrew Bowe runs a rehab centre, frequently seeing - and successfully treating - the worst of the worst, that other 'expert' lameness specialists have given up on.
 
#12 ·
Esp if the horse has been fed alfalfa, you probably want to avoid anything with added calcium in it. She may have more than enough, and as Ca needs to be carefully balanced with Mg, that may be a contributing factor.
 
#13 ·
The farrier specializes in rehab. She was tired the first few days but now is okay with it. She takes me to all of her favorite shady spots. I tell her I don't care where we go as long as she goes.
So all she needs is the magnesium and the alfalfa pellets?
 
#16 ·
So all she needs is the magnesium and the alfalfa pellets?
No. IF she needs a *single handful* of something to mix supps with to make them palatable, then alfalfa will do. She does not need it & cannot afford much of it. See Yogi's post again. And she will benefit from well balanced nutrition PLUS extra Mg, IMO.

Forgot to address treats. I'd avoid apples and anything else high sugar or starch, and keep whatever treats to a minimum. Carrots are still reasonably high, but if you cube or slice them, and give only a few small bits as a treat, that's generally OK. Or a very low cal pelleted feed, just a pinch at a time. Or rosehips, fruit tree or maple leaves or such...

And you'll get different opinions from all. It's a matter of learning enough so you can make informed judgements on what you are told. On the different opinions, I'm going to disagree with Rain that Empower RB is likely the best supp for her. It needs to be fed, to a medium sized horse at about 1-2lbs per day, 14% NSC, which isn't huge at all, but...(note 'controlled' doesn't mean low starch), but 30% protein, high in calcium, no added Mg listed in analysis, and has added iron in it. Instead I'd be looking for a powdered supp, or if a 'ration balancer', one which is very low dose, such as KER Gold Pellet or Smart Pack or such.
 
#15 ·
I'm in Citrus County so close by!

I'd get Nutrena Empower Ration Balancer. Its designed for the fatties while giving them all their vitamin and mineral needs. Read the bag. My 900lb Arab foundered and gets fat off of thin air. She gets 1lb a day.

It might seem expensive at firs $23 a bag at Tractor Supply but that's a 40 day supply.

I'd switch to that and leave her hay alone. Bahia and Coastal usually aren't that rich. If she's still fat, start weighing out her hay, 1.5% of her ideal body weight. Normally around 15 lbs a day and putting it in a 1in hay net so she has to nibble all day
 
#18 ·
^Yes that's more appropriate- a pure Mg supplement. I didn't see how much you would get per dose, but I'm sure there are instructions and you can do more research on that.

But again, the first step is just a solid vitamin/mineral supplement-something like this: https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smartvite-thrive-pellets-11446. You need to balance out what she's getting in your grass/hay so either get that tested or I'd just call your vet and see what he/she recommends for your area. Then you can see how much Mg that has and add an additional Mg supplement.
 
#19 ·
I agree with getting her tested first. I would not start adding magnesium etc without test being done. You can cause a lot of problems if you 'offset' the mineral balances. You should get your Vet out to test her, or at least speak to your Vet first before taking mineral/vitamin advice over the inter net.
Pastures vary region to region, even in the same county. The dirt / ground in my area is totally different the the dirt/ground 20 miles west or east of me.
Pastures vary by the type of grasses, fertilized or not, irrigated or not.

Please speak to your Vet.
 
#20 ·
I agree with testing and talking to the vet, but it won't hurt any horse to be on a healthy diet!

Also as far as Mg specifically, you cannot test for it as you can test for other things, it's also commonly deficient (in everything) and there is no harm even if you do over supplement, it's very safe and you often WANT to "over supplement" with it when there are issues like this going on. As I already said for which vitamin/mineral supp the OP wants she should check with the vet as area does matter (example Selenium has a very narrow safety margin and while we are deficient for the OP supplement Selenium could be very dangerous). You don't have to worry too much about the balance of different things when all the horse is getting is basic hay and an appropriate supplement, that's only really a problem when you start adding to the diet, or feeding something like alfalfa that's known to be imbalanced.
 
#21 ·
Okay, I can do the smart pack one. I saw a senior formula that I will probably go with. She's 16 - 17 years old (I don't have her exact b-day). Then adding the magnesium won't be too much of a problem. https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smartvite-thrive-senior-pellets-11447

To get these things down her do I just put it over the alfalfa pellets or do I switch it to beet pulp? She's not a picky eater.
 
#22 ·
At 16 or 17 she could definitely have the start of Cushings, or something else that's not age related. Yup SmartPak has several different options, and there are plenty of non SmartPak options too. Most you would want the extra supplement of Mg with.

Do run whatever you choose by your vet, as mentioned it's area specific and what might be optimal for me could be flat out dangerous for your mare (the Selenium like I mentioned for example).

I would go with beet pulp first, but no need to switch to beet pulp as you already have the alfalfa- do feed the bare minimum though. A small handful of pellets soaked would be more then enough. Honestly if you get the supplements in pellet form then you probably won't even need the alfalfa, I bet she'd just eat it plain!

If you get her to loose too much weight on this diet and need her to gain then I would get some beet pulp, but until/if then there's no reason to worry about it, you can at least use up the bag. Remember you aren't actually feeding it just giving just enough to get the supplements in as she doesn't need anything more.
 
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