Cutting feed costs - Page 4
   

       The Horse Forum > Keeping and Caring for Horses > Horse Health > Horse Nutrition

Cutting feed costs

This is a discussion on Cutting feed costs within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Cutting equine horse feed costs

Like Tree54Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    01-18-2013, 06:16 PM
  #31
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by usandpets    
Well there it is. The OP should just sell their horse.

Horses have done fine through the years with just hay. It's amazing that they survived before RB's were invented, if I understand your opinion correctly.

It just sounds, to me, that someone gave you a great sales pitch to buy RB's. They can be beneficial, but they are not necessary. Just my opinion.
Posted via Mobile Device
Did I say they couldn't live? Nope. I'm sure they can live. But I want my horses AS HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE. They work for me and it's my duty to keep them healthy.

I don't need a sales pitch. I have done the research all on my own. I like to read and I like to know what I'm doing when taking care of my animals.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    01-18-2013, 06:22 PM
  #32
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy1356    
Ok I am going to agree with Usandpets here even though I have an extensive feed bill with all the extras. If my horse was an easy keeper I would not have all the extras unless I felt better about feeding them.

If it is between selling the horse or having them live comfortably on just hay without extras I think the decision is pretty clear to keep the horse in the loving environment that it is in. Not everyone can afford all the special things, that doesn't mean they shouldn't own a horse. People invented reasons for these horses to need these extras. That does not mean that every horse out there needs all this extra "stuff".

OP- If you need to cut costs and your horse is otherwise healthy except the Vit A then just give the Vit A with hay. I am guessing you are giving the Vit A orally by syringe? If so you don't need anything to feed it with.
im not talking about "extras." I'm talking about basic nutrition. A hay diet alone does not provide that. If your horse maintains weight on hay alone, that's great! Mine do. But, my hay is not adequate in vit/min which is where the 1lb of RB comes in. Could I feed a vit/min supplement instead of the rb? Sure! No problem, except that mine wont eat it. So, I feed what I need to to keep adequate nutrition. It's my duty as a horse owner. I don't feed anything extra, except free choice loose salt.

Have you ever tried to look into WHY your horse is such a hard keeper? It is possible for a horse to just be a hard keeper, but a high percentage of the time there is an underlying cause. This could be ulcers, hindgut acidosis, a starch sensitivity, not enough hay, digestion issue, vit/min issue and/or a million other things. If it were me, I would be finding out why my horse is such a hard keeper. Take care of that underlying cause and you may be surprised just how easy of a keeper your horse really is. I have seen it many times with the rehab OTTB horses I have had.
     
    01-18-2013, 06:28 PM
  #33
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by usandpets    
Yes Trinity, you are right. Hay is not 100% complete nutrition-wise. There is hay that is not adequate for horses which is designated as cattle hay. There is good hay that is adequate for horses.

I will also agree that hay is not enough for SOME horses, such as professional or ones in a heavy work load or ones with health issues already. Light work or pleasure horses are not in the same boat. They will do fine with just hay.

Saying all hay is not adequate for horses is the same as saying not stalling a horse is not adequate care for the horse. I'm not saying feeding supplements or other feed is not better for them. I'm just saying its not necessary.

Here's a couple pics of our horses. When the vet and farrier say they are healthy and doing fine, I don't see a reason to change what they get.

This horse they couldn't believe was 17yo. He thought she was only 10. She has been on hay (or grass in summer) all her life and nothing else. No health issues and solid hooves.


This girl is the same way, hay or grass. She always has a shiny coat except when its muddy.
Posted via Mobile Device
I see horses that look good calorie wise. I couldn't tell you about nutrition wise. I'm guessing they aren't getting adequate nutrition simply bc of what your feeding plan is. Have them both tested and get back to us with the results. If it comes back that your horses are not lacking on ANYTHING, then you can argue your point and I'll shut up. But until then, you or I or anyone else on the plant knows b/c they weren't tested.
     
    01-18-2013, 06:30 PM
  #34
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by verona1016    
How much does your horse weigh? 2 lbs a day is the amount recommended for horses 1300-1500 lbs in light work, and QH's generally weigh less than that. Cutting back to 1.5 lbs per day or less would save you some money and should still provide adequate nutrition.

I know Triple Crown 30% Supplement was already mentioned, but I'll plug it too. It's lower NSC than GnW and has higher concentration of vitamins & minerals, so you could feed less. I haven't done a detailed comparison of TC30 vs GnW (because GnW isn't sold by my local feed stores), but when I compared TC30 to Empower Balance, I found that 1 lb of TC30 gave the same amount of nutrition as ~1-1/2 lbs of EB, negating the price difference between the two. A quick glance at GnW's analysis makes me think the same would hold true for it. My feed store sells TC30 for $38/bag, so about the same price as you're paying for GnW, but would provide better nutrition per pound.

I'd avoid feeding a hay only diet as your horse has already had a problem with vit A deficiency.

For the joint supplement, I'd shop around and see if there's one that provides the same amount of active ingredient for less. SmartPak has several that would fit this bill, but IIRC they don't ship to Canada.
I'd be interested in a comparison too. I never really looked into it in detail b/c you really can't feed less than 1lb per 1,000lb horse of either GnW or 30%. Since I'm already feeding that and the 30% here is more expensive, I went with the GnW.
     
    01-18-2013, 06:47 PM
  #35
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneFastHorse    
Did I say they couldn't live? Nope. I'm sure they can live. But I want my horses AS HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE. They work for me and it's my duty to keep them healthy.

I don't need a sales pitch. I have done the research all on my own. I like to read and I like to know what I'm doing when taking care of my animals.
I guess we differ on what we feel adequate is. I think adequate is what is sufficient. I think you feel it means 100% complete. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    01-18-2013, 07:17 PM
  #36
Showing
Mine do very well on a good grass hay (Timothy) and a mix of oats and senior's, a lb 2x daily. It's more like 2/3 oats, 1/3 senior's. Oats are much cheaper than the commercial feeds and are the only thing that will heal hind gut ulcers. People are inclined to over supplement their horses. You have to do your homework and check the labels and by adding another supplement could you be overloading him on something. Too much of something can be start a chain of events in which the balance of nutrients in his body is misaligned. The vet has mentioned this to you and you're inclined to not believe him. He went to vet school for a very long time.
peppersgirl likes this.
     
    01-18-2013, 07:21 PM
  #37
Showing
Can we assume your vet has done a full slate of blood work to determing your horse's deficiency's? You may be overdoing the vitamin A. How much is in the Grow and Win besides what you are supplementing with?
     
    01-18-2013, 07:43 PM
  #38
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
Mine do very well on a good grass hay (Timothy) and a mix of oats and senior's, a lb 2x daily. It's more like 2/3 oats, 1/3 senior's. Oats are much cheaper than the commercial feeds and are the only thing that will heal hind gut ulcers. People are inclined to over supplement their horses. You have to do your homework and check the labels and by adding another supplement could you be overloading him on something. Too much of something can be start a chain of events in which the balance of nutrients in his body is misaligned. The vet has mentioned this to you and you're inclined to not believe him. He went to vet school for a very long time.
Are you KIDDING me! Heal hindgut ulcers? Where the world did you get your information from? Hindgut acidocis is CAUSED by gastric ulcers. High NSC feeds CAUSE gastric ulcers. Oats are 50%+ NSC. DO NOT feed a horse with ulcers oats, or any other high NSC diet/cereal grains or sugars (corn, barley, molasses, etc). You have to CUT the NSC out and buffer the stomach acid (ranitidine or ulcerguard) to HEAL ulcers. Oats will just worsen the situation. Alfalfa also helps with ulcers. You HEAL hindgut acidosis by using Equisure, getting rid of the ulcers, and cutting NSC in diet.

You better go back to the reading block before you post any more detrimental info for other people.
Rachel1786 and spirit88 like this.
     
    01-18-2013, 07:55 PM
  #39
Foal
Thank you for all the responses! I wish I could get the hay tested but I board and right now there has been multiple hay sources. Makes it a little difficult...

I don't EVER intend to sell my horse. Ever. Not an option.

feedxl.com would be great but I just don't have that extra 30-40/month... I'm sort of pay cheque to pay cheque at the moment. Hence why I'm looking to see if I can try to reduce my food costs without sacraficing the quality nutrition. It would certainly help but I don't want to sacrafice his care at all.

The brands I can get around here: Master Feeds, Kentucky Equine Research, Purina and Buckeye. Buckeye seems to have been the only one without molasses which too much sugar was a concern for us through 2012.
We have also decreased the Gro n' Win because he's only in light work at the moment (I board so it was a matter of getting a hold of the barn owner). The hay I don't have to pay for although we're building a slow feeder. Feed and supplements has to be provided by the owner and he does need more then just hay (not calories but vitamin/mineral wise).

I'm not able to get Triple Crown at all here. I wish!!!!! I would feed it in a heart beat. I have contacted Purina about recommendations as to what to feed if I switch over to them. Couldn't hurt to look.

The yucca I'm not at all concerned about its cost. Yes, I use it for joint issues. My boy has arthritis in his hocks. I get this directly from a health food store in loose form. It costs me about $6 per month to feed. The glucosamine I get through work as well so its a reasonable cost at $33 plus tax so about $35 and change total but I am willing to look into others to compare. I will get on that asap.

I`m in Canada so I'm looking into the SmartVite that was recommended to see if I can get that easily. I find sometimes I encounter insane shipping charges when ordering online or it won't be shipped to the area at all.

He's much closer to an ideal weight now so I am not as concerned about calories unless he starts loosing weight unintentionally (obviously there would be a reason why) but he has always been an easy keeper in previous years. I want to keep a vitamin/mineral mix at this time because I feel the hay is not going to be adequate enough to provide him with the vitamins and minerals he needs for maintenance, let alone for work.

Saddlebag - No actually he did not do a blood pannel. Its veterinarian vs. small animal vet tech in a disagreement about what's going on. He is dead set on its a sensitivity to either the Gro n' Win or the hay being fed leading to an excessive oily skin and thus causing a very bad rain rot infection. I do not necessarily agree because this horse has been on Buckeye products for the last 4-5 years and Gro n' Win for the last 2-3 years. I'm not quite set on a sensitivity/allergy to the Gro n' Win. Could it be hay? Potentially but because its from multiple sources I can't control that unless I start buying it myself then storage becomes a huge issue. I began fallowing recommendations set out here to supplement with oral vitamin A (by syringe) at 5cc initially then 3-5cc per week (which has been every other week thanks to my work sched) in addition to the Gro n' Win being fed. This has certainly helped clear up the rain rot infection but in my professional opinion this geldings coat is more dry and brittle right now NOT oily. One bath took care of the black gunk the vet was getting off his hands which was probably more related to the product he previously recommended to treat the rain rot. Regular grooming helps big time as well. The vitamin A supplement is only short term because I do want to be careful as too much is not always a good thing. He will still need a vitamin / mineral mix as clearly the hay being fed is not enough nutrition wise (calorie wise it probably is).

I'm too chicken to attempt blood collection myself. Give me a dog or cat? No problem. Horses are a whole different story.

So currently I am looking into comparing some vitamin/mineral supplements and feed it over maybe a small amount of beet pulp. The chances are he'll need something with the vit/min supplement in order to eat it.

Alright, I have some comparing to do...
     
    01-18-2013, 07:57 PM
  #40
Yearling
McDonalds is also sufficient. People can and do live on it long term (crazily enough). It it is not and will never be complete healthy nutrition for a human being. Neither would eating the same meal over and over as a rule. This is why they make multi vitamins and supplements for people. A RB or a mixed mineral does the same thing for a horse. Do people live eating inadequately? Sure. Could they feel better, have better endurance or energy, a better immune system, better skin and hair etc etc if they ate a more nutritionally complete diet? DEFINITELY. This is the nutrient deficient horse also.

There are a few facts here.

1. Horses have caloric needs and nutrient needs in their diet which are related but wholly separate needs that have to be looked at individually.

2. You can meet your horses caloric needs adequately and still have a nutrient deficient horse in good flesh.

3. Very few, if any, hays will provide 100% of the nutrient needs of a horse.

4. Nutrient needs will vary horse to horse but typically have a generic baseline that is safe to assume and base a feeding program around.

5. Hays grown in certain areas will be deficient in certain things. Age of hay also contributes to certain nutrients.

Therefore, hay alone (even the best) will not USUALLY provide all - or adequate - levels of certain nutrients a horse needs. An inadequate amount of a nutrient is a deficiency. There is no way around it.

Will a horse die if he is missing a particular nutrient? No. Not usually. But the fact remains, he is deficient. He is at your mercy as a domestic animal and cannot roam around to find something to eat that will make up that deficiency. You, the owner, are responsible for figuring it out and providing it.
OneFastHorse and verona1016 like this.
     

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cutting Down On Costs? EthanQ Horse Talk 4 12-13-2012 06:47 PM
What are the costs? skyhorse1999 Horse Talk 16 03-01-2012 09:53 PM
Griping about feed costs dee Horse Nutrition 32 11-01-2011 11:24 PM
As far as horse feed are Pellets and Sweet feed the main two types of feed? nyg052003 Horse Health 2 07-14-2011 09:25 AM
Costs StephanieP Horse Talk 2 02-19-2010 12:27 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0