Good doer but lacks energy! HELP!
 
 

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Good doer but lacks energy! HELP!

This is a discussion on Good doer but lacks energy! HELP! within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Good doer but needs more energy
  • Horse nutrition and bio chromium

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  • 3 Post By 2BigReds
  • 1 Post By Trinity3205
  • 1 Post By loosie

 
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    02-07-2012, 01:59 AM
  #1
Foal
Good doer but lacks energy! HELP!

Hi everyone,

My mare is 5 years old and is an extremly good doer BUT she lacks energy when I work her. She also eats her manure almost down to nothing! How can I give her energy without getting her even fatter?!

At the moment she is getting two grain feeds a day (morning and night) and a biscuit of hay at luch.

In her grain feeds she gets stud mix (very good maintenance feed with a viriaty of different grains), Barley and chaff

At night its the same but with bran for aid of digestion.

Help would be great :)
     
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    02-07-2012, 02:29 AM
  #2
Trained
Have you checked for a Selenium deficiency? My little mare is selenium deficient and used to be lazy as all get out, put her on that and she got a million times better.
     
    02-07-2012, 02:40 AM
  #3
Foal
Interesting I'll look into that thanks
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    02-07-2012, 03:08 AM
  #4
Weanling
Is there a reason she's not fed more hay? Like a shortage or something? You said she's fat (lol mine too a little) so obviously she's getting enough calories, but do you think lack of roughage might be contributing? My kid gets two alfalfa and two 3-way flakes a day and no grain and his energy level is great! He's a QH even, and they're generally quieter horses than TBs, OT or otherwise. I would tend to think that a deficiency in some vitamin, possibly selenium as Sorrelhorse suggested, is the cause. Horses tend not to eat their own poo unless they're missing something pretty vital! Best of luck!
     
    02-07-2012, 03:15 AM
  #5
Yearling
She only gets hay one time a day and just one flake? If Im understand correctly? That is why she is eating her poo. Not enough fiber in her diet at all. Less grain and more fiber chew time should help her poo eating. Invest in a slow feeder net and make sure she is getting a minimum of 1.5% to 2% of her body weight in forage a day. Ditch the grains and sweet feeds which is what the Stud feed sounds like and go for a ration balancer which will provide all her daily nutrients in one small feeding. Doing this will help her maintain her weight better as well as be much better for her gut (too little forage and too much grain causes ulcers) and her mental state. Horses are meant to chew 20 hours of the day.

As for the energy, Im thinking very likely a nutrient deficiency. It doesnt sound like her feeding regimen is a balanced diet for a horse at all. I always prefer to base my feeding around hay first. I love the ration balancers or fortified pelleted feeds from good companies. Not sure what it available your way, but forage first and then add feed only as needed with a complete vitamin and mineral supplement appropriate for your area or a fortified feed or ration balancer of some sort.
loosie likes this.
     
    02-07-2012, 03:49 AM
  #6
Trained
When I saw the subject heading my first thought was 'how many obese people do I know of that have heaps of energy'. Losing weight & gradual increase of exercise tends to help their energy levels.

Agree with the above 2 posters - she needs more roughage, unless she's got 24/7 grazing, which I'm hoping is the case, but as you don't say...?

Why do you feed her grain, particularly stud mix? If she's a 'good doer' she doesn't need extras in the calorie department. High octane, high starch rations aren't generally that good for horses anyway - like them living on maccas - and is hard for horses to digest & can cause hind gut acidosis, which could cause her to be uncomfortable & 'lack energy' if mild. Acidosis can also cause many issues such as laminitis, which causes them to be footsore, which may appear to you as 'lacking energy'.

If you are going to feed grainy, high starch feeds it's very important to feed little & often, not just a couple of feeds daily, to lessen the chance of serious issues & allow her to get more from her feed. You also need to ensure the meals aren't too big & there is a fair bit of roughage mixed in.

I would also look at the nutritional balance of her diet, as they're generally lacking/imbalanced in a number of nutrients that can cause a wide variety of issues. What is the bran you're feeding her? I don't know about bran helping digestion & fed only once a day would likely tend to hinder it if anything I think. I would also stick to the little & often rule if feeding ricebran or such(tho that's another thing good for stacking on more weight), but if it's wheatbran I'd leave it out. It can cause huge imbalances & should only be fed regularly if the horse is suffering from calcium overdose or such. Feedxl.com is one good source of nutritional/diet info.

Other possibilities could be pain elsewhere - sore back, saddle fit, etc.
     
    02-07-2012, 08:54 PM
  #7
Foal
Thanks everyone for the useful hints and tips.... Ok so in answer to most of the queries... she is still being fed like a stabled racehorse where all they need to get into them is stuff for energy and growth.

She does get alot of chaff (chopped up oaten hay) mixed in with the grain and I have been trying to convince the people where she is (my boyfriends house-so convincing his parents) to let me give her a cool mix of some sort in a pellet form but this is proving to be difficult as they are truly only and soley racehorse breeders and have entirely different views to what I do (An english rider) sometimes to the point of yelling.....

Now the bran... I believe it is a wheatbran and its only a small amount....my boyfriends father insists I do this because she once got bad sand colic and nearly died. I think he believes that fibre helps us get food through the system he thinks that feeding the bran will do the same thing for the horses.... I don't think its actually doing anything really ...maybe he is being overly cautious


The stud mix is all that I am allowed to use on her until she is coming to my place which is having fencing issues at the moment. Although im seriously trying to change that as I KNOW for a fact that she is no longer growing and that stud mix is probably the biggest contributer to her weight. It almost acts a conditioner which she really doesn't need!

So are people suggesting (just to clarify) more roughage and less grain, maybe pellets instead. And check for selenium deficiency.


I will show all these posts to the inlaws :)
     
    02-08-2012, 05:37 AM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by auTBrider    
she is still being fed like a stabled racehorse where all they need to get into them is stuff for energy and growth.
I disagree that that's all racehorses need either, assuming we're concerned with health of the animals, not just winning races for a few years. The great percentage of intensively kept and unnaturally fed performance horses that have problems including ulcers(saw a study a decade or so ago that concluded something like 90% of Aus racers have stomach ulcers), windsucking, colic, LGL, and that more naturally fed horses such as Gai Waterhouse's for eg are generally muc healthier are big reasons for my opinion.

Quote:
soley racehorse breeders and have entirely different views to what I do (An english rider) sometimes to the point of yelling.....
Well, they're as entitled to their opinion as much as you are & I don't think it's helpful to argue, but it sounds like you're in a difficult situation & she is your horse(I presume) I would seriously consider fast tracking everything you can in order to move the horse ASAP, for her health.... and probably your relationship with your boyfriend too. Of course, don't take my/our word for it, but do some research, so you can make informed decisions.

Quote:
i believe it is a wheatbran and its only a small amount....my boyfriends father insists I do this because she once got bad sand colic and nearly died. I think he believes that fibre helps
I think that once popular idea for colic prevention & such has been shown not to be effective & something like psyllum hulls, which form a gel & bind sand in the gut & carry it out, is good. He is absolutely right about horses needing a lot of fibre, but hay/grass would be a better way of providing it, as a little bran won't be enough. I think the main concern about wheat products is the huge calcium/phos imbalance it can cause.

Quote:
It almost acts a conditioner which she really doesn't need!
It does, no almost about it, so long as her gut is healthy enough to digest it. Long-term overweight horses, like people are also at risk of insulin resistance which is another big cause of laminitis, so it's best to try to keep them slim(not thin).

Quote:
so are people suggesting (just to clarify) more roughage and less grain, maybe pellets instead. And check for selenium deficiency.
I would say more roughage & little to no grain. You can get grain free 'ration balncers' in pellet form if you want to feed her that, which should go a way to balancing her nutrition. I'd consider a probiotic, to help get her system in good condition after the high starch/low fibre diet and I'd consider she may need a calcium boost, to make up for the excess phosphorus. While she may well be selenium deficient, it is one mineral that is very toxic in excess, so for all of the above I'd suggest consulting a nutritionist or at least something like FeedXL.
auTBrider likes this.
     
    02-08-2012, 06:25 PM
  #9
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
I disagree that that's all racehorses need either, assuming we're concerned with health of the animals, not just winning races for a few years. The great percentage of intensively kept and unnaturally fed performance horses that have problems including ulcers(saw a study a decade or so ago that concluded something like 90% of Aus racers have stomach ulcers), windsucking, colic, LGL, and that more naturally fed horses such as Gai Waterhouse's for eg are generally muc healthier are big reasons for my opinion.



Well, they're as entitled to their opinion as much as you are & I don't think it's helpful to argue, but it sounds like you're in a difficult situation & she is your horse(I presume) I would seriously consider fast tracking everything you can in order to move the horse ASAP, for her health.... and probably your relationship with your boyfriend too. Of course, don't take my/our word for it, but do some research, so you can make informed decisions.



I think that once popular idea for colic prevention & such has been shown not to be effective & something like psyllum hulls, which form a gel & bind sand in the gut & carry it out, is good. He is absolutely right about horses needing a lot of fibre, but hay/grass would be a better way of providing it, as a little bran won't be enough. I think the main concern about wheat products is the huge calcium/phos imbalance it can cause.



It does, no almost about it, so long as her gut is healthy enough to digest it. Long-term overweight horses, like people are also at risk of insulin resistance which is another big cause of laminitis, so it's best to try to keep them slim(not thin).



I would say more roughage & little to no grain. You can get grain free 'ration balncers' in pellet form if you want to feed her that, which should go a way to balancing her nutrition. I'd consider a probiotic, to help get her system in good condition after the high starch/low fibre diet and I'd consider she may need a calcium boost, to make up for the excess phosphorus. While she may well be selenium deficient, it is one mineral that is very toxic in excess, so for all of the above I'd suggest consulting a nutritionist or at least something like FeedXL.

That is a massive help!! Thankyou so much! Yeah she is my horse :) the boyfriends parents bred her but she is no good for racing and they were going to dog her! I got upset about that so they gave her to me. Everything at my house is almost completed so she can come here very soon. But for now I think I will be able to increase her roughage and then as soon as she is at my place I will apply everything else people have said.

Everyone has been such a huge help! Thankyou!
     
    02-08-2012, 07:15 PM
  #10
Foal
Oh I have found this food by hygain.... tell me what you guys think???!!!


Hygain Zero® - Low Carb - Low GI Equine Formula

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High in soluble fibre, specifically formulated for all Equines to provide a diet low in Non Structural Carbohydrates, starches and sugars.
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< 5.5% non structural carbohydrates...reduce the risk of Obesity, Laminitis, Cushings, Insulin Resistance and Tying UpLess than 1.5% starch...low in sugars to assist horses with metabolic related issues
No cereal grains...no fizz, no fuss formulaHigh fibre slow release energy...to maintain a healthy gutBiotin Enriched...for hoof & coat conditioning.Bio-available chromium...helps reduce the build up of lactic acidBio-Moss ®...for a healthy gut & immune systemNatural Vitamin E...for antioxidant & cardiovascular functions


Analysis as fed

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Crude Protein.............
Crude Fat...................
Max Crude Fibre..........
Added Salt.................
WSC less than............
ESC less than.............
15%
4%
35%
1.25%
4.5%
4.5%
Calcium......................
Phosphorous...............
Vitamin E...................
Selenium....................
Chromium...................
Biotin.........................1.2%
0.5%
500 IU/kg
0.75mg/kg
2mg/kg
5000mg/kg



Ingredients

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Biotin - Biotin, a water soluble vitamin is required by the enzymes responsible for protein synthesis and as a result is an essential vitamin for the healthy growth of hair and hooves. Research has shown that biotin improves skin and coat condition, increases hoof integrity and is widely recommended by farriers, veterinarians and scientists.

Natural Vitamin E - This unique and highly stable form of Natural Vitamin E known as RRR-a-tocopherol is up to 5 times more bio available and potent than regular synthetic sources of Vitamin E. Research has shown that this form of Natural Vitamin E provides higher retention levels in plasma further aiding antioxidant, immune, cardiovascular, circulatory, neuromuscular and reproductive functions.
     

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