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Have you ever worked with equine nutritionist?

2K views 10 replies 7 participants last post by  egrogan 
#1 ·
Bear with me as I explain my thought process.

My mare has been having issues with runny/goopy eyes as long as I have known her. Vet has checked her thoroughly, never found a physical problem. Says it's more annoying for me than for her. A few weeks ago, I happened to see a thread on here about a horse with a similar problem, and there was a suggestion that Vitamin A could help. That suggestion also went on to say that Vitamin A deficiency could be manifested in a dry/dandruffy coat. That also fits my mare in the winter.

I started researching Vitamin A, seems that unless you get injectible Vitamin A for cattle, there isn't really a horse supplement with just Vitamin A. I talked to the nice folks at Smartpak, and they had never heard of supplementing just Vitamin A. They suggested a multivitamin, which has a slew of other stuff in it: https://www.smartpakequine.com/smartessentials-pellets-12163pb

My mare was on poor quality pasture this summer, and now has basically free choice good grass hay. She gets 1 cup of Poulin Grains Equine MVP (a ration balancer) and a quarter cup of ground flaxmeal morning and night. My original thinking on adding the flax in addition to the RB was that her skin was a little dry/flaky. She is in light work.

As I was contemplating the addition of a multivitamin, I realized I have no clue how that would fit with the rest of her feed plan. When I look at the MVP ingredient list, it suggests it contains the same amount of Vitamin A as that Smartpak supplement (seems to me both contain the maximum recommended amount?), so I guess I'm confused about why she would be deficient in the first place: EQUI-PRO® MVP Supplement Pellet | | Poulin Grain - Dairy, Equine, Pet, And Livestock Feeds. I did use FeedXL last year when I decided to keep her on the MVP (the rest of the barn switched to something low-carb, can't remember the name) but I am the first to admit I don't know nearly as much as I should about feeding.

I'm wondering if this is what an equine nutritionist could help me with? If so, how would I know I was working with someone qualified? I love my vet, but he doesn't really seem to have much advice on feed issues.
 
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#2 ·
If you can find an independent nutritionist it might be worth getting in touch with one - but those that work for a specific company will always point you in the direction of one of their products
I feed Triple Crown Safe Starch forage here because its already got oils, vitamins and minerals added to it but no molasses. It contains Vitamins A & E which are both lost in grass when made into hay
In the winter when our grass disappears I also add Fortified Wheat Germ Blend oil (Tractor Supply) which gives them some additional A, E and also Vitamin D because my horses are clipped and blanketed & we get less sunlight hours they are going to be absorbing less naturally
Re. the gloopy eyes - that can be caused by an allergy to hay dust so feeding off the ground and damping hay when possible might help
Your horse might also need the tear ducts flushing through - needs to be done under light sedation usually be a vet
Washing the sticky areas around the eyes clean with warn water with a little baby shampoo in it can also help
 
#3 ·
It sounds like you're only feeding 2 cups total of the MVP per day. Based on the weight of 1 cup of my own ration balancer (about 1/4-1/3 of a pound), I would say that's roughly half a pound. The MVP calls for 1lb per day for a 1000 lb horse. According to the MVP site, you should be getting minimum 25,000 IU per lb of feed. If you are feeding half a pound per day, your horse is only getting 12,500 IU per day. An 800lb horse in light work needs a minimum of 18,000.
 
#5 ·
Have you had a CBC done? Before you just randomly go adding a vitamin especially Vit A ,D,E,K they are fat soluble and pose a risk for toxicity. It could just as easily be an essential amino acid that is missing.

It could be she is sensitive to bugs, dust or light.

I took an on line equine nutrition course through https://www.coursera.org a while back, the course was free and I learned a lot of valuable information so that may be something to look into.

After I took the course I consulted with an equine nutritionist who had been in the field for over 30 years, he did not work for any feed manufacturer and told me he could not recommend any particular feed. What I did was narrow my choices down to two that I liked, we discussed the ingredients and I made my choice. The best part was he did not charge me and spoke with me for an hour on the phone, he was super nice and very helpful.

You can ask your feed store for a nutritionist who is not affiliated with any feed companies, or Google for one.

The other thing to keep in mind is it can take a while for any changes you make to be noticed especially if there is a deficiency.

Best of luck hope you find some answers and relief for your horse.
 
#6 ·
Have you had a CBC done? Before you just randomly go adding a vitamin especially Vit A ,D,E,K they are fat soluble and pose a risk for toxicity. It could just as easily be an essential amino acid that is missing.
...

After I took the course I consulted with an equine nutritionist who had been in the field for over 30 years, he did not work for any feed manufacturer and told me he could not recommend any particular feed. What I did was narrow my choices down to two that I liked, we discussed the ingredients and I made my choice. The best part was he did not charge me and spoke with me for an hour on the phone, he was super nice and very helpful.

You can ask your feed store for a nutritionist who is not affiliated with any feed companies, or Google for one.
GSSW- This is exactly how I feel. I don't want to randomly go adding stuff just because I read about it on the Internet :wink: But I also don't have a background in nutrition and that why I was wondering if an equine nutritionist could actually provide useful professional advice. I will see if the feed store recommends anyone not affiliated with the grain companies. I definitely would pay someone if that's how things are structured, but if it's more typically a free-consult type of scenario, that's good to know.

By the way, I was enrolled in that Coursera course for this very reason, but things were crazy at work during that time and I didn't make it past the first class. I would never make it as an online student, I definitely don't have the self-discipline!
 
#7 ·
Most nutritionist, human or otherwise, do not have any training to backup the title. Take their advice for what it's worth. I don't trust smart pak either. They are selling their products. They are just answering the phone and filling orders.

Your mare does have classic Vit A deficiency issues as I have seen them. I would challenge you to buy a small bucket of Mare Plus. Double dose your mare until the bucket is gone and I bet you a beer that you will see improvements if not complete resolution of the problems. If your mare loves carrots, buy 5# bags of carrots and feed her a handful every day. In about a month you will start to see improvement.

You will more than likely not get this type of advice from a nutritionist, vet or vendor but you will from your peers who have battled and come up with a solution to the problem. Sometimes there are simple, cheap and straightforward solutions.
 
#10 ·
Lots to think about here. One easy thing I can do immediately is feed the MVP according to the instructions. That was a dumb oversight on my part, I will fix that now.

If your mare loves carrots, buy 5# bags of carrots and feed her a handful every day. In about a month you will start to see improvement.
Does my mare like carrots?! Ha! She would think she had died and gone to heaven if this became a regular part of her diet.

I will take a look at the Mare Plus.

Thanks for the other suggestions on her eyes- they are cleaned up with a warm rag twice a day. Vet has done the full suite of treatment options, including duct flushes and medicated drops. After doing all this, that's why I was interested in a possible nutritional connection. She eats most of her hay on the ground, but I do give her the overnight hay in a haynet because there's no way she'd have any to hold her all night if it was all out for her. I definitely could see how this could be contributing enough dust to lead to irritation.
 
#9 ·
The coursera course was nice but not very in-depth. Basic stuff. I would have loved for them to have gotten more techincal but for a free class it was worth it. They still offer it periodically.

I wouldn't hesitate to use Mare Plus but not at double dose. I'd feed the recommended rate for a week to 10 days and then the lower rate two or three times a week along with her regular feed. MVP should have plenty in there for most horses however those recommended rates are for average horses. Some individuals are going to need more of an item, some less. Most fall somewhere in between and are good on those recommended amounts.

Mare Plus is good stuff. It's been around forever, tried and true. It was even available when I was a kid. Very easy way to really kick up the nutrition without adding much in calories. Plus most horses will eat it. The only nutrient where you don't have a lot of wiggle room is selenium. Mare Plus is going to put it right at the edge which is why I say don't double dose. We've got some wiggle room because there isn't much selenium in New England soils.

When I first got my TWH she was covered in the worst case of rain rot I had ever seen. I couldn't find the cattle supplement here so I used the mare plus. It's loaded with vitamin A. Cleared the mare up in no time. It was November when I got her so I was really limited on washing her.

https://farnamhorse.com/product.php?mainkey=200005&pid=100087&key=300002


IR does often make allergy symptoms worse.

I use MVP. I have no rain rot issues. No goopy eyes. I tried other ration balancers but even measuring it out carefully my old pony was peeing too much. I could only reason too much protein. Urine is high nitrogen. So are proteins. MVP is a bit lower in protein than most of the other ration balancers. What ever it was the switch to the lower protein ration balancer worked. My two small mares thrive on it.

My walker mare needs more calories than the other two so I use a mix of Poulins Carb safe and their low carb senior. I was using purinas mini horse and pony food mixed with the carb safe but when the low carb senior came out I switched so I could do away with tractor supply altogether. She looses weight on the spartan diet the two small mares get and gains too much on just the low carb senior so I have to mix it up a bit for her.
 
#11 ·
Just thought I'd update, last Friday I adjusted the amount of MVP to match the recommended weight and added Mare Plus (1 oz AM & PM). We'll give it a go with the bucket of Mare Plus and see if there are any changes in goopy eyes and dry skin.

If not, I'll start looking around for a nutritionist who can consult on current diet and see what we should do differently.
 
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