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Malnutritioned horse and dung question

This is a discussion on Malnutritioned horse and dung question within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        11-18-2013, 04:54 AM
      #11
    Foal
    Thanks. I will try to get some more pictures of him and post it here. I will also ask about what types of feeds we can get and list it here.

    Also there is another issue. To us he looks like he is a little obit out of energy. He does not want to run around, or play with us. Even if we try to walk him in a faster pace than his usual he refuses. He only shows some interest when we present him some treats. We did not lunge him yet because he is too weak, but the guy that owns the farm claims that his refusal to run is because he does not have any horseshoes yet and his hoofs are not in good condition. Is that correct?

    Also his grain is tha same that all other horses at the farm eat and they do not show the same symptoms.

    The guy tha owns the farm says that free choice hay is not a good idea since we do not have the same hay as you guys have
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        11-18-2013, 06:25 AM
      #12
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geocy    
    Thanks. I will try to get some more pictures of him and post it here. I will also ask about what types of feeds we can get and list it here.

    Also there is another issue. To us he looks like he is a little obit out of energy. He does not want to run around, or play with us. Even if we try to walk him in a faster pace than his usual he refuses. He only shows some interest when we present him some treats. We did not lunge him yet because he is too weak, but the guy that owns the farm claims that his refusal to run is because he does not have any horseshoes yet and his hoofs are not in good condition. Is that correct?

    Also his grain is tha same that all other horses at the farm eat and they do not show the same symptoms.

    The guy tha owns the farm says that free choice hay is not a good idea since we do not have the same hay as you guys have
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    If you get some photos of his hooves I'm sure you'll get some good opinions on that, it may be his hooves or it may not be but photos of his hooves while he is standing on flat ground may help.

    Are all the other horses of the same age range as your horse is? I'm just wondering say if they are finished growing and because he is 2.5 years old he isn't finished growing and needs different nutrition, or it may be he is just a lazy horse like my gelding, he may be lacking in vitamins and minerals and a blood test can help you figure that one out, or it may still be that he doesn't have quiet the right diet yet for a horse that was neglected and trying to grow at the same time, therefore his body is still trying to repair itself from that? I'm no expert at all, other people can give you better advice on that one

    I'm not sure about your type of hay, I haven't seen it before. Is it wheat hay or wheat grass hay? Apparently they are different to each other from the quick google search I just did, what does it look like?
    Is that the only hay that is made around you?
    Here we have many different types of hay all made from different types of grass, but I haven't seen wheat hay before, maybe somebody else has and can give you better advice.
    Sorry I can't be of much help
         
        11-18-2013, 10:23 AM
      #13
    Trained
    Racehorse people usually don't feed much hay, because they think a full belly slows the horse down when running, and a racing horse needs way more calories than hay alone can provide. So they give lots of grains. Sometimes the horses in training/ racing are also too tired to eat enough hay.
    A horse that is not in this kind of work, can very well live on hay and/ or grass alone..... they did it for a long time before us humans became involved, and all wild horses still do. The digestive system is designed to eat constantly, high fiber roughage, small stomach, large intestines, and high production of stomach acids to start suggestion of the fibrous stuff. When the stomach is empty, the acid begin easing the stomach lining, creating ulcers. This could be what had happened to your house when he wasn't fed enough when he was gone from the farm. A vet can rest for that, and give you medicine for him, but if the original problem is not solved, he will just get new ulcers(a vet high% of race horses has ulcers, I think the number was around 90%). Then, to top it off, high grain rations can cause hind gut ulcers/ acidosis, which causes diarrhea and very smelly poop. You can imagine that a horse with these problems doesn't feel very well.

    Once you give us a list of what you can get, and photos of his hooves, we can give you some ideas.
         
        11-18-2013, 10:24 AM
      #14
    Trained
    Holly...... grain hays, like what, oat, barley and rye, it a mix thereof, are grown in warmer climates, mainly the west coast here in the US( although I did see oathay in Germany also). It is harvested as hay when still green and the grain is in dough stage. Horses really like it, as you can imagine, and it is a valuable part of the diet for a horse in work, and keeps them also nice and warm in the winter, due to the high fiber content.
    EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
         
        11-18-2013, 11:24 AM
      #15
    Started
    You can use yogurt as a probiotic. Give him one single serve container (200g) to start. You can put it in an old dewormer syringe and shoot it into his mouth if he won't eat it mixed over his grain.

    The runny poop could be from a number of things. He could very well have sand in his gut which will cause it. Psyllium will help with that. You can feed him human grade psyllium at a rate of 150g for 7 consecutive days. He probably has ulcers. Small meals are 4-6 hour intervals will help. Drugs are very expensive to treat ulcers. He could also have a sensitivity to something he is eating.

    As far as fattening him up, he simply needs more calories. His digestive system is probably inefficient from damage from starvation so he needs calories he can easily digest and utilize. If your wheat hay is what is left after they cut the wheat grain off of it, that's what we call wheat straw. It's very mature and very high in fiber that he isn't going to get much nutrition out of. He still needs it. That's one thing missing in his poop. You can normally see undigested long stem fiber. It gives the poop volume, moves things along and contributes to the overall health of the digestive tract. He needs about 20 Mcals (20,000 calories) or roughly 80 Mjoules (80,000) a day. The grain mixture will fall around 2.4 Mcals/kg and the wheat hay will be around 1.2 Mcals/kg. Do a quick calculation of how many K of each he is getting. You can add oil for extra calories but keep in mind that it doesn't have anything but fat calories. You aren't helping to build lean muscle mass, make him fill out and grow on a diet with a large portion of oil in it. He will use the fat as an energy source instead of lean muscle mass if he needs it. Add some but limit it to 100g per meal to start. Oil can make the diarrhea worse as he gets used to it. Cut the amount down if that happens. Oil is cheap (you can feed olive oil) and it will have 3.5X more calories than the grain mixture.

    As far as shoes, no he does not need them. Your ground is perfect for keeping the feet worn down naturally. He feet will be healthier without shoes. As you start working him and his feet wear down faster than they grow or he becomes sensitive to walking over rough terrain, than he will need shoes but save the money for now. When a horse's feet are sore, he will take small choppy steps and his head will go up and down. (think ouch, ouch, ouch.. just like us). If it's one or two days, no biggie. His feet are toughening up and he will get better.
    geocy likes this.
         
        11-18-2013, 01:56 PM
      #16
    Foal
    Your post are very informative and educational.

    Wheat straw it is then. This is exactly what we have. Any other hay it is expensive or impossible to get. Except clover hay (not sure how to call it)

    About probiotics. Is there anything else I can use as probiotics? Brewer's Yeast was one suggestion and yogurt the other one. I am not sure where I can find Brewer's Yeast in my country, but I will try to ask around. Yogurt is a cheap solution, but we do not have a fridge at the farm. So we will have to carry it with us all the time. Any other solution?

    How long will we have to add probiotics?


    I will take some pictures of him and his feet and his poop tomorrow when I will go to the farm.
         
        11-18-2013, 02:35 PM
      #17
    Trained
    If you can order online, look for PROBIOS. The powder form is actually quite inexpensive to feed you need only 5 grams daily.
    If you feed wheat straw, you can actually add some clover hay, mix it with the wheat straw. Maybe 2kg a day, starting with 1 kg for 3, 4 days, then 1/2 kg more, and watch him, if his poop changes. What I think is that he is not eating much straw, only his grain, and it comes back out pretty much as it went in....
    The clover, can you get a picture of it?I have a idea, but like to make sure i'm right....
         
        11-18-2013, 02:38 PM
      #18
    Started
    Natures probiotic is simply poop from a healthy horse. If you've ever been around foals, they eat their momma's poop to populate their digestive tract with beneficial bacteria.

    Any product designed for goats or cattle will work. Even something you can add to the water. I would add a probiotic for at least a week bit a month would be better.

    Do they sell cultures to make homemade yogurt?
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        11-18-2013, 02:54 PM
      #19
    Trained
    Cut the grain. Get a Vet out to check on him. Feed ONLY good quality grass hay, or grass/alfalfa mix. Keep putting it out free choice and let him eat as much as he wants. There are still hay shortages, so I won't argue. DO your HOMEWORK and buy your hay initially from feed store that also carries hay. Have your VET teach you about hay quality. (I like to get opinions from the horse people who are not selling the products.) Also, get AT LEAST a block of salt. I have free choice salt in a block in my horse's shelter's hay manger all year around, and we get decent snowfall here in central Illinois. If there is a University with an AG department, GET ON THE PHONE and ask questions. The University of Illinois Vet School Dr.'s will talk your ear off, but you can learn a LOT. There are also Community Colleges that have Vet Tech programs and you can get some help from them, too.
    Your horse is young and Can recover. Even so, it ALWAYS takes more time to put back weight than it does to lose it.
         
        11-18-2013, 03:32 PM
      #20
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corporal    
    Cut the grain. Get a Vet out to check on him. Feed ONLY good quality grass hay, or grass/alfalfa mix. Keep putting it out free choice and let him eat as much as he wants. There are still hay shortages, so I won't argue. DO your HOMEWORK and buy your hay initially from feed store that also carries hay. Have your VET teach you about hay quality. (I like to get opinions from the horse people who are not selling the products.) Also, get AT LEAST a block of salt. I have free choice salt in a block in my horse's shelter's hay manger all year around, and we get decent snowfall here in central Illinois. If there is a University with an AG department, GET ON THE PHONE and ask questions. The University of Illinois Vet School Dr.'s will talk your ear off, but you can learn a LOT. There are also Community Colleges that have Vet Tech programs and you can get some help from them, too.
    Your horse is young and Can recover. Even so, it ALWAYS takes more time to put back weight than it does to lose it.
    Did you sleep through world geography?
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