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Malnutritioned horse and dung question

7K views 55 replies 20 participants last post by  livelyblueyes 
#1 ·
Hello, i am new to this forum but i need your feedback for my horse.

Me and my wife have rescued a 2.5 years old male horse from a racetrack farm. He was severe malnutritioned for 6 months before we got him. Here is a picture of him the day we got him.



Now after 1 month with regular feeding, and no exercise at all, he did put on a bit of weight, but not what we expected.
I am worried especially about his dung.

It is a bit "runny" not exactly diarrhea, but not normal either.
Is it normal for his age? Or is it something we should be worried about.
He has normal amounts of hay and he is fed twice a day with grain.
It looks a bit like this.


Also, do you have any suggestions on how we can make him gain weight fast? I was reading about adding some oil to his food. Is that a good idea?

Thank you!
 
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#2 ·
What kind of grain are you feeding? I'm a BIG fan of formulated feeds over raw grains like oats. Not only are they easier for the body to use & digest, but many are cram packed with extra goodies for cases just like this. I'm wondering if probiotics would help this guy out in a big way.
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#3 ·
Have you had him checked for worms? Wouldn't hurt to have his teeth looked at, too, although he is still a baby.
I don't think I would add oil to his feed until you get that poop issue straightened out.

Once he blossoms he looks as if he will be a pretty boy.

What hay is he being fed?
 
#4 ·
Definitely not normal. It may be that the grain is too rich for him at the moment if he has been starved before not. You might try just giving him unlimited hay and back off of the grain to see if it helps. I agree that a probiotic (can be mixed into grass pellets or a tiny bit of feed) might help him too. My filly occasionally gets runny poo and probiotics usually help her sort her body back out again.

If it doesn't clear up in a week though, call a vet. If the food is just running through him he will not gain weight no matter how much you feed him.
 
#5 ·
What kind of hay are you feeding? Prairie grass, alfalfa, what? Knowing this will help you decide what to add to it. I would stay away from a lot of "sweet feeds" because they can cause more problems than they fix and instead go for something that will balance what he is getting. Also, what kind of regimen is he on for parasites? If he were my horse I would probably get a fecal float on him (about 20 bucks) to see exactly what parasites he's got so that you can give the correct wormer. A lot of these guys don't gain because they have been treated for parasites incorrectly. I also agree with a probiotic.
 
#6 ·
It's not normal as the above posters have said. It could be several things. I would take his temperature to make sure he doesn't have something going, if it's normal then I would take the suggestion for deworming him and then I'd even put some yogurt in his feed (the kind with the good bacteria in it). You may consider a dose of ulcergaurd as well.

As for putting weight on a horse. It's crazy how quickly they drop the pounds and how long it takes to put the pounds back on. You could use a product called weight gain that I've found works really well. Because he is so malnutritioned, I would suggest feeding one of the full source feeds, I think there are Junior Horse feeds that are such, but you may want to try the Triple Crown senior feed for a while.

Good luck....
 
#7 ·
Hello again and thank you for your replies.

We live in Cyprus, and here is a little bit hard to maintain a horse.

Achilleas, (his name now) is been fed with wheat hay, (we do not have alphaalpha in my country) and a grains which is a mixture of oats, wheat, clover pellets and some other things. It is custom made for the guy that owns the farm.

He was dewormed twice since we took him to the farm. I think with two different types of Quest gel, for two types of worms. Sorry for my ignorance but we call them white and red worms.

I will try to find probiotics at the local pet pharmacy. Maybe they have. Or i will try to order online.

I think i will have to call the vet. It is expensive to call a vet here. Almost 100 bucks just to visit you.
 
#8 ·
Welcome to the forum :)

such a pretty boy you have there!

For how long have you had him and what was he eating before?
What he is eating right now is all very high in sugars and starch, and most likely lacking some important minerals also. Can you take him off the grain mix and feed free choice hay, maybe try to find him some plain grass hay? Definitely a vitamin/ mineral supplement with a good calcium content, since just about all he's getting from his feed is phosphorus at the moment.
If you can find Brewer's Yeast, that would be a probiotic.
Important right now is really that he is seen by a vet, to make sure there is nothing really wrong with him. it will be cheaper if you catch it early, should there be something.
Keep hay in front of him all the time, that will be a great help for him to gain weight and avoid ulcers and such. Maybe you could find alfalfa pellets or chaff, and add the vit/min some salt, and maybe a little oats. My guess is that his current grain is too rich fir him.
 
#9 ·
Free choice hay to my understanding i an all you can eat hay?

What i know he was taken away from the racehorse farm, to an unknown location for about 6 months. Then they return him back to the farm 2 days before we saw him, at bad condition. My guess is that he was fed only small amounts of hay for that 6 months period. It is now been 1 month that we had him.

Someone told us that feeding him with a lot of hay will not help him gain weight, so we are cutting him back on the hay.

We could cut back half his grain intake and add some supplements.
Brewer's Yeast is not something i think i can find in my country. But i could check around for something similar.

He was check by a vet, but for injuries only. I will ask to be called again. To take a closer look this time.

A guy that owns racehorses, told me that we could ask for baby powder milk to add to his food. This way he can gain weight faster, and maybe some more vitamins. What do you think about this crazy idea?
 
#10 ·
Hi geocy, welcome to the forum and thank you for taking this horse in and caring for him, and not being afraid to ask questions and take advice! He looks like a cute wee thing, I demand more photos haha :lol:

Don't cut his hay back, yes free choice hay is as much as he can eat. Hay is good for him, while hay on it's own may not help him gain weight, it is important for him to have something in his gut at all times in order for his gut to work correctly. He needs as much hay as he can possibly eat, if you are going out to see him and he has finished his hay pile then he is not getting enough hay.

I do think cutting back on the grain and upping supplements is a good idea, I don't know what feeds you can and can't get in Cyprus so I can't help you on that one, though if you know what your feed store carries maybe you can type up a list here and people can help you decide which feeds to go for?

Personally I wouldn't add baby milk powder to his feed, I have heard of it being good and whatnot but I wouldn't do it.
 
#11 ·
Thanks. I will try to get some more pictures of him and post it here. I will also ask about what types of feeds we can get and list it here.

Also there is another issue. To us he looks like he is a little obit out of energy. He does not want to run around, or play with us. Even if we try to walk him in a faster pace than his usual he refuses. He only shows some interest when we present him some treats. We did not lunge him yet because he is too weak, but the guy that owns the farm claims that his refusal to run is because he does not have any horseshoes yet and his hoofs are not in good condition. Is that correct?

Also his grain is tha same that all other horses at the farm eat and they do not show the same symptoms.

The guy tha owns the farm says that free choice hay is not a good idea since we do not have the same hay as you guys have
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#12 ·
If you get some photos of his hooves I'm sure you'll get some good opinions on that, it may be his hooves or it may not be but photos of his hooves while he is standing on flat ground may help.

Are all the other horses of the same age range as your horse is? I'm just wondering say if they are finished growing and because he is 2.5 years old he isn't finished growing and needs different nutrition, or it may be he is just a lazy horse like my gelding, he may be lacking in vitamins and minerals and a blood test can help you figure that one out, or it may still be that he doesn't have quiet the right diet yet for a horse that was neglected and trying to grow at the same time, therefore his body is still trying to repair itself from that? I'm no expert at all, other people can give you better advice on that one :)

I'm not sure about your type of hay, I haven't seen it before. Is it wheat hay or wheat grass hay? apparently they are different to each other from the quick google search i just did, what does it look like?
Is that the only hay that is made around you?
Here we have many different types of hay all made from different types of grass, but I haven't seen wheat hay before, maybe somebody else has and can give you better advice.
Sorry I can't be of much help
 
#13 ·
Racehorse people usually don't feed much hay, because they think a full belly slows the horse down when running, and a racing horse needs way more calories than hay alone can provide. So they give lots of grains. Sometimes the horses in training/ racing are also too tired to eat enough hay.
A horse that is not in this kind of work, can very well live on hay and/ or grass alone..... they did it for a long time before us humans became involved, and all wild horses still do. The digestive system is designed to eat constantly, high fiber roughage, small stomach, large intestines, and high production of stomach acids to start suggestion of the fibrous stuff. When the stomach is empty, the acid begin easing the stomach lining, creating ulcers. This could be what had happened to your house when he wasn't fed enough when he was gone from the farm. A vet can rest for that, and give you medicine for him, but if the original problem is not solved, he will just get new ulcers(a vet high% of race horses has ulcers, I think the number was around 90%). Then, to top it off, high grain rations can cause hind gut ulcers/ acidosis, which causes diarrhea and very smelly poop. You can imagine that a horse with these problems doesn't feel very well.

Once you give us a list of what you can get, and photos of his hooves, we can give you some ideas.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Holly...... grain hays, like what, oat, barley and rye, it a mix thereof, are grown in warmer climates, mainly the west coast here in the US( although I did see oathay in Germany also). It is harvested as hay when still green and the grain is in dough stage. Horses really like it, as you can imagine, and it is a valuable part of the diet for a horse in work, and keeps them also nice and warm in the winter, due to the high fiber content.
 
#15 · (Edited)
You can use yogurt as a probiotic. Give him one single serve container (200g) to start. You can put it in an old dewormer syringe and shoot it into his mouth if he won't eat it mixed over his grain.

The runny poop could be from a number of things. He could very well have sand in his gut which will cause it. Psyllium will help with that. You can feed him human grade psyllium at a rate of 150g for 7 consecutive days. He probably has ulcers. Small meals are 4-6 hour intervals will help. Drugs are very expensive to treat ulcers. He could also have a sensitivity to something he is eating.

As far as fattening him up, he simply needs more calories. His digestive system is probably inefficient from damage from starvation so he needs calories he can easily digest and utilize. If your wheat hay is what is left after they cut the wheat grain off of it, that's what we call wheat straw. It's very mature and very high in fiber that he isn't going to get much nutrition out of. He still needs it. That's one thing missing in his poop. You can normally see undigested long stem fiber. It gives the poop volume, moves things along and contributes to the overall health of the digestive tract. He needs about 20 Mcals (20,000 calories) or roughly 80 Mjoules (80,000) a day. The grain mixture will fall around 2.4 Mcals/kg and the wheat hay will be around 1.2 Mcals/kg. Do a quick calculation of how many K of each he is getting. You can add oil for extra calories but keep in mind that it doesn't have anything but fat calories. You aren't helping to build lean muscle mass, make him fill out and grow on a diet with a large portion of oil in it. He will use the fat as an energy source instead of lean muscle mass if he needs it. Add some but limit it to 100g per meal to start. Oil can make the diarrhea worse as he gets used to it. Cut the amount down if that happens. Oil is cheap (you can feed olive oil) and it will have 3.5X more calories than the grain mixture.

As far as shoes, no he does not need them. Your ground is perfect for keeping the feet worn down naturally. He feet will be healthier without shoes. As you start working him and his feet wear down faster than they grow or he becomes sensitive to walking over rough terrain, than he will need shoes but save the money for now. When a horse's feet are sore, he will take small choppy steps and his head will go up and down. (think ouch, ouch, ouch.. just like us). If it's one or two days, no biggie. His feet are toughening up and he will get better.
 
#16 ·
Your post are very informative and educational.

Wheat straw it is then. This is exactly what we have. Any other hay it is expensive or impossible to get. Except clover hay (not sure how to call it)

About probiotics. Is there anything else i can use as probiotics? Brewer's Yeast was one suggestion and yogurt the other one. I am not sure where i can find Brewer's Yeast in my country, but i will try to ask around. Yogurt is a cheap solution, but we do not have a fridge at the farm. So we will have to carry it with us all the time. Any other solution?

How long will we have to add probiotics?


I will take some pictures of him and his feet and his poop tomorrow when i will go to the farm.
 
#17 ·
If you can order online, look for PROBIOS. The powder form is actually quite inexpensive to feed you need only 5 grams daily.
If you feed wheat straw, you can actually add some clover hay, mix it with the wheat straw. Maybe 2kg a day, starting with 1 kg for 3, 4 days, then 1/2 kg more, and watch him, if his poop changes. What I think is that he is not eating much straw, only his grain, and it comes back out pretty much as it went in....
The clover, can you get a picture of it?I have a idea, but like to make sure i'm right....
 
#18 ·
Natures probiotic is simply poop from a healthy horse. If you've ever been around foals, they eat their momma's poop to populate their digestive tract with beneficial bacteria.

Any product designed for goats or cattle will work. even something you can add to the water. I would add a probiotic for at least a week bit a month would be better.

Do they sell cultures to make homemade yogurt?
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#19 ·
Cut the grain. Get a Vet out to check on him. Feed ONLY good quality grass hay, or grass/alfalfa mix. Keep putting it out free choice and let him eat as much as he wants. There are still hay shortages, so I won't argue. DO your HOMEWORK and buy your hay initially from feed store that also carries hay. Have your VET teach you about hay quality. (I like to get opinions from the horse people who are not selling the products.) Also, get AT LEAST a block of salt. I have free choice salt in a block in my horse's shelter's hay manger all year around, and we get decent snowfall here in central Illinois. If there is a University with an AG department, GET ON THE PHONE and ask questions. The University of Illinois Vet School Dr.'s will talk your ear off, but you can learn a LOT. There are also Community Colleges that have Vet Tech programs and you can get some help from them, too.
Your horse is young and Can recover. Even so, it ALWAYS takes more time to put back weight than it does to lose it.
 
#22 ·
I do not like hostility. I asked for help because i cannot get help where i am. At least some cheap one. A vet visit will cost around 300usd or more. Vets for horses in my island are rare and expensive.

Also i just got into horses, i have zero to little experience with them.

In any case i will keep the people who are actually helpful postet about the actions i will take and the status of my horse.
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#23 ·
Hind gut acidosis is the very likely cause imo. Not sure what is available there to treat it. I would like to ditto another healthy horses poo for best probiotic tho. Vets will tube the strained poo juice directly to the belly of sick horses with the hydrolic poops. Saves lives. They also do this to humans. Dunno if that would help hindgut acidosis or not tho.
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#24 ·
If you can get inexpensive human probiotics in capsule form, empty 7 capsules daily into the feed for 5 days. This is cheaper that a tube of "horse" probiotics. Most OTTBs have ulcers. I feed oats. Oats are the only additive that will heal hind gut ulcers. Omeprazole works for stomach ulcers.
 
#25 ·
my horse likes eating poop all the time. Is it a good idea to pick up some poop from the other horses and have him eat it?

I will ask a friend that owns a pharmacy how much human probiotics will cost me. I will post soon pictures of his feed, hoves and whatever else may be useful.

Thank you again for the help
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#26 ·
I just want to say you're doing a great job :) Takes a lot of courage to come onto a board with a bunch of people and ask questions. You've gotten some fantastic answers from some of the members here. I, too, can hardly wait to see progress pictures with this boy! I think he will be stunning!

Keep up the great work Geocy!
 
#28 ·
Horses don't always eat poop because they're hungry - it is often a habit they pick up because they have been hungry at some time in their life and resorted to eating poop because there was nothing else
It can also be a need for the bacteria in it that they are deficient in and will continue as long as he isn't keeping enough healthy bacteria in his gut - hence the need for feeding probiotics to get him through this
A horse like this would do better on free access to hay 24/7
A low sugar feed is better for him as too much sugar can cause sloppy poop
I would treat him for ulcers - if you can't buy omeprazole off prescription there you might be able to buy ranitidine. Other than that magnesium and calcium supplements will help reduce acid
If you feed oats then boiling them in a pressure cooker makes them more digestible
If he's been on the same grazing all the time he's had worms then its going to be contaminated now and he'll likely need more regular treatment - he may have encysted red worms (will cause sloppy poop) which will need a different worming strategy
 
#29 ·
Hello again, and thanks to everyone for your replies.

As from today, i am adding poop from the healthy horses under a little bit of straw to encourage him to eat it.
Tomorrow the farrier is coming to check on him, and propably he will get horseshoes on.

I have some more picture for you.
This is what he has to eat..





I also have bought this supplement. At the vet pharmacy they told me that it will do him good. The guy that owns the farm says that we should wait until he is ready to get some exercise, so he will have more energy. Is anyone familiar with this one? What are your thoughts?


This is a picture how his poop is like



And finally here are some more pictures of Achilleas, after one month that he has been in our care.


 
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