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Need some advice from the nutrition/feed stuffs gurus, please.

This is a discussion on Need some advice from the nutrition/feed stuffs gurus, please. within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Horse panting after giving tri-hist
  • Using omega horseshine and max-e-glow

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    08-31-2012, 01:17 PM
  #21
Trained
Hmm...okay, good to know it's TSC and not Nutrena, obviously. Luckily I have another source
I did like the life design very much, it did wonders for my underweight mare.
Cleaning my paddock gives me time to think also, which I did....maybe it's an ingredient in Purina feeds which our two are sensitive too which in turn makes them more attractive to bugs.....I see a big difference in fly infestation between my two, but thought due to my gelding being grey, which is least attractive to flies.
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    08-31-2012, 01:21 PM
  #22
Trained
My TSC gives me no problems whatsoever in exchanging bad feed, btw.
Found out they have a survey going on until end of the year ....every store gets rated...*hinthint*....maybe if you mentioned that next time.......
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    08-31-2012, 02:02 PM
  #23
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
Hmm...okay, good to know it's TSC and not Nutrena, obviously. Luckily I have another source
I did like the life design very much, it did wonders for my underweight mare.
Cleaning my paddock gives me time to think also, which I did....maybe it's an ingredient in Purina feeds which our two are sensitive too which in turn makes them more attractive to bugs.....I see a big difference in fly infestation between my two, but thought due to my gelding being grey, which is least attractive to flies.
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That is what I am thinking too. If it was that easy, it will be a releif! LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
My TSC gives me no problems whatsoever in exchanging bad feed, btw.
Found out they have a survey going on until end of the year ....every store gets rated...*hinthint*....maybe if you mentioned that next time.......
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LOL! Oh I will mention it. I get so mad every time I have to deal them. They act like I am trying to rob them blind! The tack store down the rode sells the supplements I feed, but if they started selling feed/grain I would never step foot in TSC again.

Thanks for your help!
     
    08-31-2012, 02:27 PM
  #24
Trained
They should have a sign up at the registers "win a 2500$ shopping spree"....that's it, just grab it and hold it under their nose, lol
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COWCHICK77 likes this.
     
    08-31-2012, 07:30 PM
  #25
Started
Have you tried EquiSpot? I never would have if my vet hadn't recommended it, but it's doing wonders for my gelding that has an allergic reaction to bug bites. Helps a lot with the itching.
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    08-31-2012, 08:05 PM
  #26
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
A little history...

Zorro is about 11 yrs old. We bought him a couple of years ago when he came up for sale from a rodeo company my husband used to work for. He was used for roping bucking bulls and ranch work. Has a tendency to be very nervous under pressure. At this point his work load is very light. I may lope him to keep him and shape and my husband comes home and rides him maybe to help a friend work/rope calves. All the horses are turned out on pasture 24/7 and fed Strategy GX according to body condition/work load.
My other horse look beautiful since switching to Strategy. Zorro does not.

Zorro has a bad case of Sweet Itch which I had taken him to the vet for. He was placed on Tucuprim for the skin infection, given a fast acting steriod shot and a slow one. Also prescribed Dex powder to give as needed. The hives are down but he still is itching.

His weight is low and his coat looks horrible. I expressed my concerns to the vet. He wanted to get the Sweet Itch under control, then do an allergy test. Maybe he thinks the weight issue is related to the Sweet Itch but he didn't seem to want to address it at this time.
Making an appt. Soon for allergy test and address the weight issue again.

So this is what he is getting....

Strategy GX 4.5 lbs divided into 2 feedings.
Light work, 1100 lb horse. Working him up to maybe 5.5 or 6 lbs?
I am concerned about his gut, in the case that is the issue and feeding a lot of grain.

TractGard 1 oz. Per feeding
Digestive aid and electrolyte

HistAll 1oz. Per feeding
Antihistimine for the itching associated with the Sweet Itch

Dexamethasone as needed for hives and extreme itching.
My thoughts:

1. Nothing wrong with the things he's getting, for the most part. Just too many things and I am willing to bet some THING is cancelling another THING out.

If he were my horse, I'd cut everything but the ulcer meds out and start all over again.

2. Find him a good ration balancer which, I don't think Strategy is an RB but I could be wrong. Even if it is, switch him to another brand name ration balancer.

3. Regarding the sweet itch on his neck, I could say to double dose him with pure Ivermectin but, at this point in time, me thinks he's got too much other stuff going on to risk double-dosing him. The ulcers for starters.

4. While this is just my opinion, it would be a cold day in Hades before I gave my horse an anti-hist AND Dex at the same time.

4.1 My horse with very bad environmental allergies was on Tri-Hist, seasonally, for a couple years. It helped some but it did a better job of making a nut case out of him. I switched him to "Allergy Herbal Blend" by herbs4horses.com around four years ago and never looked back. His allergies are 85% under control, his eyes & nose stopped watering and he only coughs a little when he comes in at night. I never hear him cough in the pasture.

5. I also feed three of my four Omega-3 Horseshine (flax). It gives them all a fantastic shiny coat and healthy hooves but doesn't do a thing to control the environmental allergies of the horse I have mentioned.

Again, my thought is the horse is getting over-loaded so nothing is working.

As far as rice bran, I've been feeding it for the last five years, along with a vit/min supplement to my horses. They get physicals twice a year and so far everyone passes with flying colors, including their teeth.

That doesn't mean there aren't horses out there that can't have bone problems. The safety valve should be in buying equine rice bran that is calcium fortified, plus being stabilized so it doesn't turn rancid.

However, I don't feed the maximum recommended of two pounds/daily either. In the winter the hard keepers will get one pound/daily, the other two get around a half pound/daily. It's healthy fat and provides cool energy.

I respectfully say, you can't keep adding things - less is more in his case and it's going to be a matter of process of elimination and changing some things

You don't want to throw his metabolism so far off kilter that he could possible end up with insulin resistance or equine metabolic syndrome. While fat is the norm for metabolic horses, thin horses can develop them too, given the right conditions.

And there's my two cents with about 98 more cents added
     
    08-31-2012, 10:23 PM
  #27
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinthewalk    
My thoughts:

1. Nothing wrong with the things he's getting, for the most part. Just too many things and I am willing to bet some THING is cancelling another THING out.

If he were my horse, I'd cut everything but the ulcer meds out and start all over again.

2. Find him a good ration balancer which, I don't think Strategy is an RB but I could be wrong. Even if it is, switch him to another brand name ration balancer.

3. Regarding the sweet itch on his neck, I could say to double dose him with pure Ivermectin but, at this point in time, me thinks he's got too much other stuff going on to risk double-dosing him. The ulcers for starters.

4. While this is just my opinion, it would be a cold day in Hades before I gave my horse an anti-hist AND Dex at the same time.
I had asked the vet about this and he said it wouldn't hurt to keep him on both. Hmmmm

4.1 My horse with very bad environmental allergies was on Tri-Hist, seasonally, for a couple years. It helped some but it did a better job of making a nut case out of him. I switched him to "Allergy Herbal Blend" by herbs4horses.com around four years ago and never looked back. His allergies are 85% under control, his eyes & nose stopped watering and he only coughs a little when he comes in at night. I never hear him cough in the pasture. He does not cough and his eyes or nose do not run at all. Would this still be a good choice for him? I suppose it coundlnt be any worse than the HistAll and Dex....

5. I also feed three of my four Omega-3 Horseshine (flax). It gives them all a fantastic shiny coat and healthy hooves but doesn't do a thing to control the environmental allergies of the horse I have mentioned.Deserthorsewoman and LeftHandPercherons both suggested flax or an Omega 3 supplement as well.

Again, my thought is the horse is getting over-loaded so nothing is working.
That is what kinda inspired this thread, I am worried about over doing it and making things worse.

As far as rice bran, I've been feeding it for the last five years, along with a vit/min supplement to my horses. They get physicals twice a year and so far everyone passes with flying colors, including their teeth.

That doesn't mean there aren't horses out there that can't have bone problems. The safety valve should be in buying equine rice bran that is calcium fortified, plus being stabilized so it doesn't turn rancid.
That is what I bought yesterday, MaxE Glo, it says 1 lb for his work load which is nothing right now. Tonight I tried just feeding it and **** canning the Strategy. He can be rather picky and he wouldn't eat the rice bran until I mixed a little Strategy with it. I will have to wean him on to the straight Rice Bran.
However, I don't feed the maximum recommended of two pounds/daily either. In the winter the hard keepers will get one pound/daily, the other two get around a half pound/daily. It's healthy fat and provides cool energy.

I respectfully say, you can't keep adding things - less is more in his case and it's going to be a matter of process of elimination and changing some things
I agree, I am not a supplement person normally. Again that is why I started this thread to get some ideas on what I can change or get rid of/add to get the best results...because I don't know. Most show barns I worked for never gave grain or supplements, if they did it was insisted by the owners, not the trainer. The ranch horses I rode never got supplements and were fed cheap sweet feed(like Zorro has for the majority of his life) only when they were caught and brought to the barn. And they all were healthy happy shiny horses.

Just yesterday in TSC buying the Rice Bran there was a gentleman buying the same stuff, we got to chatting. He is also from the west coast, recently moved to TX. Him and his wife have about a dozen cutting horses. He is having issues with keeping them fed up good and one of his fillys has had a couple good bouts of colic. We were wondering about the change pasture grass/hay compared to what our horses were used to eating out west? Maybe we are not feeding them to compliment the grass/hay difference?



You don't want to throw his metabolism so far off kilter that he could possible end up with insulin resistance or equine metabolic syndrome. While fat is the norm for metabolic horses, thin horses can develop them too, given the right conditions.


And there's my two cents with about 98 more cents added
Thanks for the reply! I have learned quite a bit through this thread and other peoples experiences. Next week he will go back to the vet and see if I can't get this sorted out if not, I may get a second opinion.
     
    09-01-2012, 08:15 AM
  #28
Green Broke
1. If you're up for spending the money, I would call Don at Herbs4Horses and ask him for a two pound bag of the "Allergy Herbal Blend" but, you'd have to take your horse off the Anti-Hist and the Dex.

If you're going to see any improvement, you should see something degree within 48 hours. A two pound bag would give you plenty of time for improvement without spending a lot of money.

2. Believe me, I am ON the Omega-3 Horseshine side of the fence - I can't say enough good about it. I'm sure it helps with minor allergy issues but, anyone in my barn with allergies --- it isn't minor - lollol I live in the Tennessee Valley, a/k/a The Basin, or as one vet puts it "Allergy Purgatory".

My allergy-laden horse didn't have these problems until we moved here and the born/raised-in-this-county Vet once told me I am lucky enough to live on the worst end of the county

3. Maxi-Glo is what I use - it comes in meal and pellet forms. I buy the pellets. My horses like the taste - lol lol lol

Your horse still needs a good quality ration balancer to get all his vitamins/minerals in him. The rice bran doesn't offer anything in that regard.

Two of my horses are finishing up EquiPride (I can't make that 92 mile one-way drive anymore) and the other two are on Triple Crown (that's "only" 41 miles away:(

Triple Crown's ration balancer (RB) is called "30%". My 26 yr old Arab is on that and doing wonderfully.

My 25 yr old TWH is on TC Senior as he doesn't seem to get as "off" on the Senior as he did on the 30%. He's my heart horse (the guy in my avatar) of 22 years and now has EQuine Metabolic Syndrome, hind gut ulcers and the vet is sure he also has lipomas in the digestive tract. His health issues have made it tough to keep food in him without him colicking, which that's it's own story.

Anyway, when the barometric pressure makes a big change (like when the outer edge of Isaac first started rolling in), I take him off his TC Senior at night and just feed him rice bran, Omega-3 Horseshine, crushed apples & carrots. It's gotten to where I breath a HUGE sigh of relief when he goes straight to is hay after eating his supplements at night.

I said that to sort of say, yes, both the environmental and weather changes can make a difference to many horses (regarding your conversation with the Gent in TSC

I don't know how long you've owned horses but if it's been a fairly short time, believe me things didn't used to be this way.

My first set of Keeper Horses lived 85% of their lives "Before Coggins" and shots were unheard of, unless you showed heavily on the circuit.

I never had problems. I sent those two Fellas on to their ancestors at ages 27 & 29 with nothing more than the Arab/Saddlebred needing stitched up when he was a two year old. He went on his last hard, all day trail ride, when he was 27. He finished that ride ahead of at least 50% of 175 horses; that was his idea, not mine, I let him set his own pace

All these health issues, allergy problems, founder, etc is a whole new thing for me. It is no exaggeration that I have spent more in equine vet bills these past five years than I have spent since I bought my first Keeper Horse 53 years ago
     
    09-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #29
Green Broke
LOL! I know what you mean! I have had horses for 30 years, pretty much my whole life and I have never had to deal with this. All the ranch horses were on the "get tough or die" program. No shots(they hardly left the ranch) wormed twice a year once in the spring and after the first good freeze in the fall, grazed in deep snow until it got a hard crust then they were thrown hay, and fed sweet feed when caught. And they were healthy horses that lived well into their 20s!

Gracie our gray mare has never had great feet but they got worse when we moved here. It got to the point were she couldn't hold a shoe for more than 10 days and her feet would crumble off. I finally had to put her Horsehoers Secret and painting her toes with Keratex to keep shoes on. These horses just aren't doing well here!
However I am thankful I don't live in "Allergy Purgatory" eeek! LOL

I always say that just because you have been riding your whole life doesn't mean you know what your doing. Well obviously I have been feeding horses all my life and I don't know a **** thing about feeding them..LOL

Anyhow...
This morning I called around and tried finding a feed store that sells a ration balancer...no such luck. I even went to the Nutrena website and punched in my zip, 100 mile radius, called all of those Nutrena dealers, none sell the Empower or Triple Crown.
I don't know anything about ration balancers, what other brands could I try?

I went to TSC this morning and found a bag of the Omega Horseshine. This evening I will add that to his MaxE Glo rice bran pellets. He is not fond of the rice bran pellets so I also bought a sack of the Nutrena Life Design Senior to mix with the rice bran so he will eat it. I figure a senior feed might be better and I have fed him that before when TSC doesn't have the Compete, which that was the case again this morning. Also wanted to switch back to Nutrena from the Purina in the event that some ingredient in the Purina is causing problems.

I stopped the Dex and he is a mess this morning. His face is covered in big raw bloody patches from itching on the fence posts and oak trees :( Maybe I will start the Dex and not the AntiHist and see what happens.
Tuesday I will look into the Allergy Herbal Blend, since it is Saturday and a holiday weekend I can't do a whole lot until then.

Again I thank you and everyone else for the help!
     
    09-01-2012, 12:41 PM
  #30
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
This morning I called around and tried finding a feed store that sells a ration balancer...no such luck. I even went to the Nutrena website and punched in my zip, 100 mile radius, called all of those Nutrena dealers, none sell the Empower or Triple Crown.
I don't know anything about ration balancers, what other brands could I try?

I don't know where you located but what about Enrich 32? It's made by Purina but seems to be ok (I've used it for a couple years). It's not the highest quality RB out there but it works.

The other thing I just did with Lacey (she's a chub monkey and has enough health issues for 4 horses so I'm trying to cut all sugary stuff and go "all healthy" on her) is I got her a loose mineral supplement -for me, Purina's Nature's Essentials 12:12, we only really have Purina here but there are other, better, supps out there- and I started giving her alfalfa pellets to give the mineral+her supplements something to stick to. I had just been sticking her supps to the RB.
The other bonus of that^is there's very little in the way of unessecary ingredients.


Also, when I was asking around to find the best option for this^ someone recommended GroStrong minerals as "THE" best. We don't have it in my area but you might be in luck. :)
     

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