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Older Horse Diet Problems?

2K views 15 replies 12 participants last post by  stevenson 
#1 ·
Sigh

My horse, Sonny, it would seem, has suddenly become an old man.

He's 21 as of April and it looks like this winter was particularly harsh on him. He was very very thin coming out of winter. We thought maybe once he had more access to grass he'd bulk back up since he always seems to get smaller in the winter months but nope.

We brought him to the vet on May 18.

We had his shots updated, had his teeth floated (he was due and we thought maybe they were getting in the way of his ability to eat), and we had the vet assess his weight.

He's 1050 right now and he used to be up around 1200. If there's one thing you can say about my family, it's that we're more likely to overfeed than underfeed our horses :wink:

He was never obese though, no worries.

But now he's very thin.


The vet checked him out and told us he had sand in his colon! Sand! Like...how does that even happen? What business does he have eating sand anyway?

We had his teeth done, and then, yesterday he didn't eat his dinner and today he didn't eat his breakfast.

We stall at night and put them on grass during the day.

For breakfast he gets a scoop of grain and a coffee cup full of minerals. As well as about 1/3 of a bale of hay. He gets the same for dinner.

This diet has kept him at a healthy weight his entire life with us.

Tonight I went to feed him. As per the vet's instructions...

He is NOW getting:

1 scoop Purina Impact Senior
1 scoop Meti-mucil
1 scoop Farnamr Weight Builder
1 scoop Sand Clear
1 scoop minerals
1/3 bale of hay


It should be noted that "scoop varies in size depending on the item it's scooping :wink:

We're hoping this will turn him around and get him to bulk.

Do you think it will?

Also...

Is it safe to ride him at this reduced weight?
How long you figure it'll take to get him to gain?

Any general thoughts?
 
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#2 ·
Green grass helped my old guy better than anything although Equine Sr. also made a big difference. Is it possible to leave him on pasture 24/7?

About riding...I think that would depend on exactly how thin he is. Personally, I stopped riding mine for that very reason because I didn't want him burning any more calories than he had to. He still had 23 acres of hilly pasture and herd mates to keep him moving though.
 
#3 ·
We COULD leave him outside all night but he's a little co-dependent on our other horse (even though our other is a bit of a bully)

And feeding him inside helps reduce his chances of eating dirt - which apparently he's done quite a lot of judging by the sound of his colon.

Our pasture isn't very hilly. All the hills (what few there are) are in the fields around my house.
 
#4 ·
As horses age, they can lose some of their ability to digest food and use all the calories from it. Twenty-one is not very old, nowadays, unless he has not had good care earlier in life for some reason. Did the vet say he had any serious dental issues?

Perhaps vitamin E deficiency has made him lose muscle mass if he is not getting any supplements and just hay during the winter. If it is not supplemented, horses can only get vitamin E from fresh, green grass. It quickly degrades out of dried hay so some horses get deficient over the winter and lose muscle.

You don't mention deworming, but I assume the vet discussed that with you.

A suggestion: If you're not blanketing during the colder season, your horse will have to burn a lot more calories to stay warm. For a horse that loses weight in the winter, feeding free choice hay can definitely help as well as blanketing.

For a thin horse, I don't see any reason to give a certain amount of hay such as 1/3 of a bale. I would feed free choice hay, essentially giving the horse enough hay that he never runs out. You don't say what type of hay you feed, but increasing the quality of the hay can help, and you can also add alfalfa.

Without seeing pictures of the horse or knowing the body condition score, I couldn't say if it was safe to ride him or not. It all depends on if he was on the thin side at 1200 or overweight.

If he doesn't gain weight with free choice hay you could slowly increase the Senior feed over a few weeks until you are feeding a few pounds of it. It's much better to weigh the feed than to go by scoops, except for with vitamins and supplements where you are probably dosing by scoops that are measured in ounces.
 
#5 ·
OK...the sand issue.
If you read the sand clear container it says to do sand clear for a week, once a month every month if you have a problem.
Do the sand test {gallon zip-lock bag, handful of fresh poop from top of a pile, into the bag, add water 1/2 full, seal and watch. Sand sinks and the rest floats}
If there is sand in the gut you'll see it in the bag, treat then.
Sand can coat a intestine and stop the absorption of nutrients. It builds up over time...

I don't quite get metamucil and sandclear as they do the same thing...
What I have read & been told is to continually "clean" the intestine also wipes out the needed bacteria used for digestion and that is not the best thing for your horse to have happen...

His loss of weight...
Is it weight or is it muscle-tone which many consider "fat" weight...there is a difference.

I'm not a vet but after reading the "Impact Senior" pdf I do question "WHY" this feed?
It is terrible in fat content and that helps add weight in cool calories.
It reads for muscle maintenance....or is that the issue???

I think there are better choices in the Purina line of feeds for a senior than this one...
:runninghorse2:...
jmo..
 
#6 ·
i Threw my hard keeper on senior feed this winter and it helped him quite a bit. then two weeks ago when we started to throw them on grass with sill getting a bale of alfalfa every day and his grain (we will be lowering his feed soon) he looks great and normal weight after two years of trying to get him at a normal weigh. the grass has helped a lot
 
#7 ·
If the horse did weigh 1200 pounds, I'm sorry it was obese, unless it's Draft, Draft/cross, Warmblood, anybody over 17H.

No average sized riding horse should weigh that much.

My 15.3H TWH was obese when he weighed 1200 pounds and I have the pictures to prove it. The problem with wanting to keep our horses "well fed", is that we often go into denial that the horse is too well fed. I learned that lesson the hard way when my horse developed insulin resistance and foundered pretty bad.

What should be of concern is how fast the horse lost 150 lbs.

Horses do not intentionally eat dirt but they do inhale it, when they breath. If you need rain and grass is at a premium, they are inhaling dust.

If they are licking dirt, they most likely have a mineral imbalance.

When I live in SoCal, My three horses lived in sand for five years. I always wet their hay, wet the ground be.ow the hay feeders and fed them a DAILY psyllium feed-thru, the entire five years we were there. That was 13 years ago and none of the horses ever developed sand stones or had sand colic.

If sand is that big of an issue, feed them something specifically for it but there should still be an answer as to why the horse lost 150 pounds in a short period of time, if nobody had it on a diet.
 
#8 ·
Response to some of the questions/concerns

1. We did worm him at the vet - he gets his wormer regularly

2. I mistyped - he is getting the Sand Clear for a week and then three off and on the days he isn't getting Sand Clear he's getting Meti-mucil.

3. I don't know why we feed Impact Senior - it's what we've always used for when our horses get older. I believe the vet suggested it.

4. He may not have been around 1200 - probably more around 1100-1150.

5. I know the lady who raised him from a colt and he has had no unusual events in his life. She trained him on barrels, he ran them until he was 15. He came to live with me.

Here are some pictures of when he's at his normal weight. I'll try to get some of how he looks now.







Here's how he looks coming out of winter usually


But this year - despite literally nothing changing in his diet/exercise over the winter - you can see his ribs, his hip bones are sticking out, and sitting on him bareback is like sitting on the short end of a 2x4.

Again: MAIN question: How long do you think, given the new diet additives, it will take for him to gain his weight back?
 
#10 ·
In answer to your "main question"...
I don't think you are feeding this horse what he needs to thrive.
Your feeding plan needs tweaking...

So, the more I thought about this...
I went searching for information...
There is no recommended amounts of feed fed, none I can find on the internet on this product.
I went further and looked at the feeding guideline for regular formula Purina Senior...
Based on optimum weight of a 1,000 pound horse..fed with 10 pounds of good quality hay daily a minimum of 7 pounds of feed fed to maintain.
The lowest amount fed for a horse of this size...start to ride/work them or need weight gain and increase that amount by a few pounds per day.

http://www.purinamills.com/purinami...Sell-Sheet_REVISED-FINAL_1-22-15.pdf?ext=.pdf
So I went out to my barn and took my scoop from Purina and looked closely at it...ahha, Senior feed pound markings I found.
Now I took my 2 qt scoop and filled it from my "2 pound marked scoop" with feed.
Bottom line is that horse is not getting what you think he is getting in feed...
Maybe the feed is right for him but he just isn't fed enough.
I still do question though why you are feeding feed expressly stating for muscle maintenance not weight gain.

I also wonder if he just lost his muscle-tone partly from winter inactivity and partly because his age is now catching up to him...your thinking skinny is possible muscle mass lost?

Not all horses age gracefully....
He really is a senior now and if campaigned hard if she rode him chasing barrel shows, points and purses till he was 15.......
It is not uncommon to have what was a easy keeper suddenly become difficult to maintain let alone thrive as in the past as they age...

I would speak to the vet about the food choices and daily required cleaning of the intestinal tract...
So the sand clear is being fed as recommended but why the daily Metamucil?????

I truly don't understand the theory behind this practice. :confused:

I would be weighing that feed & hay fed so you know positively how much is fed and know where to go from there....
I also would be contacting the Purina Nutritionist support team for a amount of this particular feed to be fed for this horse to gain and thrive.
:runninghorse2:...
jmo..
 
#13 ·
I have a 22 year old that I struggle with on weight. By far the best thing for him has been a quality senior food that is easily chewed. He has wave mouth and even with regular dental care...it's a problem. Several people on the forum recommended Triple Crown senior feed since it is sort of crumbly and easy to chew. He did great on it! However, it's just out of my budget. I found a local alternative in Bar Ale mature horse plus. The ingredients are similar, though not quite as good to the Triple Crown but I have seen an incredible difference since beginning this feed in January.

By far the best thing for him though is access to green grass. I live in California and we have very mild winters here. The grass is lush green from December-April and both horses put on a lot of weight. Our summers are pretty brutal and they lose it May-October. It's a viscous cycle that I can't help but chuckle at since it's so the opposite of what many people on the forum experience.

As of right now my winning formula is twice daily:

1/2 flake alfalfa
4 lbs Bar Ale mature horse plus feed
1-2 lbs oats
1 cup bran
All day green pasture



Not all horses age gracefully....
I think it's really important to keep this in mind. Both of my horses came to me as used up seniors who weren't properly cared for. I do my best, but the odds of them aging gracefully into their mid twenties-thirties is just very slim. It's an unfortunate reality.

http://www.horseforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 
#11 ·
Others have mentioned this, but you should probably feed by weight, not by scoops. Senior feed is formulated to be fed a specific amounts, and doesn't work like it should when not fed as directed.

We have a 26YO TWH mare that has been diagnosed Cushings, so feeding her to keep weight on has been a challenge. We have her on McCauley Alam, which is formulated for horses with metabolic issues, but it also helps put and keep weight on (we love this stuff). We carefully weigh everything, both hay and feed. We do have everyone out on grass half days now; we can't measure that of course, but we monitor intake as best we can.

Her hips and backbone are sticking out, but the vet has said she is an excellent weight. This loss of topline is due to loss of muscle, mostly because she is very arthritic and doesn't get the exercise she needs to keep her muscle tone.

We feed in Portagrazers and haven't had any sand issues since we started using them (also helps that they are slow feeders).
 
#12 ·
Sigh

My horse, Sonny, it would seem, has suddenly become an old man.

He's 21 as of April and it looks like this winter was particularly harsh on him. He was very very thin coming out of winter. We thought maybe once he had more access to grass he'd bulk back up since he always seems to get smaller in the winter months but nope.

We brought him to the vet on May 18.

We had his shots updated, had his teeth floated (he was due and we thought maybe they were getting in the way of his ability to eat), and we had the vet assess his weight.

He's 1050 right now and he used to be up around 1200. If there's one thing you can say about my family, it's that we're more likely to overfeed than underfeed our horses :wink:

He was never obese though, no worries.

But now he's very thin.


The vet checked him out and told us he had sand in his colon! Sand! Like...how does that even happen? What business does he have eating sand anyway? He may have been but even a little sand stuck to grass and such can add up. Make sure you are not feeding him on sand.

We had his teeth done, and then, yesterday he didn't eat his dinner and today he didn't eat his breakfast. How long after teeth is this? Is this on the new diet? Is he still eating grass ok?

We stall at night and put them on grass during the day.

For breakfast he gets a scoop of grain and a coffee cup full of minerals. As well as about 1/3 of a bale of hay. He gets the same for dinner.

This diet has kept him at a healthy weight his entire life with us. Things change so I wouldn't put any emphasis on that

Tonight I went to feed him. As per the vet's instructions...

He is NOW getting:

1 scoop Purina Impact Senior
1 scoop Meti-mucil
1 scoop Farnamr Weight Builder
1 scoop Sand Clear
1 scoop minerals
1/3 bale of hay
You do realize how random that is? lol You spell it out but don't say anything, the scoop varies fine, but how much are the different scoops?

Not to discredit your vet, just my take-I have never heard of the Impact and it's odd to me it's not available on Purina's site.. :/ Aren't Metamucil and Sand Clear the same thing? Why both? Also, studies have shown that lots of good hay is the best thing to get rid of sand. Feeding fiber to an animal who eats primarily fiber is not the same as when humans eat it. All those weight builders seem sketchy to me. If he needs more than hay and the recommended amount (on the bag) of grain then add something else, I like beet pulp, you can do hay pellets, etc. "1/3 bale hay" tells absolutely nothing either, what kind? What weight is that? etc I wouldn't think that would matter as he's on the grass, which may be why he cares less about hay.


It should be noted that "scoop varies in size depending on the item it's scooping :wink:

We're hoping this will turn him around and get him to bulk.

Do you think it will? See above, but it's really hard to say without knowing your horse. I would recommend feeding more 3x/day, doesn't sound too different than what he was getting before.

Also...

Is it safe to ride him at this reduced weight? Ask the vet. Doesn't sound like he is that bad so I would say yes, but keep it light, also make sure his saddle still fits properly. I wouldn't be worried about "danger" unless he's emaciated (doesn't sound it!) but you don't want to burn calories he needs.
How long you figure it'll take to get him to gain? Depends

Any general thoughts?
Do you have a picture? Info on the Impact? What grain was he getting before? Also, a coffee can sounds like a LOT of minerals, so that may be turning him off from eating.

I would get him on a good grain, plenty of GOOD grass, and quality hay maybe alfalfa, and some beet pulp. I bet that would bulk him up in no time. I would also look if your minerals are actually appropriate and maybe tweak that. Add a probiotic.
 
#16 ·
1/2 flake of hay is nothing. what size bales / if you are using the 180 lb alfalfa bales, one flake is about 4 inch wide . it also depends on the weight of the flakes. If it is loose baled you will need more than that.
My senior horse gets, as much alfalfa hay he can eat without leaving a huge mess.
If he leaves stems, I give them to the younger horses. He gets two scoops (one quart dry measure ) of senior feed, some vitamins similar to red cell, one scoop alfalfa pellets. Bran once a week or month, depending on if he acts like he has a belly ache. He also gets the small spoonful/scoop that comes in the probiotic.
The scoop of psyllium is usually about 1/2 cup , the scoop comes in the psyllium.
 
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