opinions on oil supplements?? - Page 2
   

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opinions on oil supplements??

This is a discussion on opinions on oil supplements?? within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Rice bran oil supplemrnt for horses green lip muscel
  • Is canola oil good for horses

 
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    02-27-2011, 10:33 PM
  #11
Green Broke
More on Rice Bran oil.. Love this stuff for weight gain..

http://www.kppusa.com/library/index....c_view&gid=139

More on Fish Oil..I had NO idea that fish oil was this good for horses??

http://www.wellpride.com/
     
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    03-05-2011, 02:38 AM
  #12
Foal
I have read that horses do not have gallbladders, the organ responsible for helping to assimilate fats. So fractionated oils (those separated from their protein components and enzymes) end up being absorbed through the lacteal ducts in the intestinal tract. These ducts are also the receptor sites for fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K - so the oil could potentially block absorption of those vitamins. I choose not to feed oil for that reason.
     
    03-05-2011, 02:39 AM
  #13
Foal
Oils like corn and canola are also high in Omega 6's which, if fed out of balance, can be inflammatory and not great for joints in the long run.
     
    03-05-2011, 02:55 AM
  #14
Foal
Here's something I just found which a doctor wrote, corroborating the above.

Brendan C Francis MD
Answered Jan 09, 2010 at 03:01AM
Omega 3 and omege 6 fatty acids are both essential fot the body to function well.
Omega 3 fatty acids found in cold water fishes such as sardines and salmons, fish oils, cod liver oil and flax seed oil. Omega 6 fatty acids are found in corn oil, sun flower oil, soy oil, peanut oil , meats, and dairy.
Now the body needs a healthy balance of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids to function.
Omega 6 fatty acids promote inflammation within the body . This tells the body that it needs to come to that area of the body and repair it for proper healing.
Omega 3 fatty acids acts to reduces (inflammation) in the blood vessels and prevents the blood cells (platelets) from clumping together. It helps to stop the blood from clotting, decreasing the risk for strokes or heart attacks

Too much omega 6 fatty acids can cause too much inflammation for too long a period and lead to a chronic inflammation state which can lead to blood vessel disorders and harmful effects on the organs in the body.
Too much omega 3 fatty acids can increase the risk of bleeding within the body.
So a healthy balance of the fatty acids need to be reached.
     
    03-05-2011, 03:06 AM
  #15
Foal
TheGrassIsGreener-
Your first post doesn't quite make sense to me. If oils are absorbed through the same passageways as oil-soluble vitamins (which I've never heard of... only water soluble), then wouldn't that actually be better?
I would also imagine it would take a considerable amount of time for the omega 3-6 ratio to get so out of balance it would cause long term inflammatory problems. Why not just feed oils or supplements with both O3 and O6? Then no worries.
Also, I don't know if inflammatory problems would affect joints first. I would imagine the soft tissues would be most susceptible.
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    03-05-2011, 03:21 AM
  #16
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHorse    
TheGrassIsGreener-
Your first post doesn't quite make sense to me. If oils are absorbed through the same passageways as oil-soluble vitamins (which I've never heard of... only water soluble), then wouldn't that actually be better?
I would also imagine it would take a considerable amount of time for the omega 3-6 ratio to get so out of balance it would cause long term inflammatory problems. Why not just feed oils or supplements with both O3 and O6? Then no worries.
Also, I don't know if inflammatory problems would affect joints first. I would imagine the soft tissues would be most susceptible.
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The theory is that the oil is just kind of sitting there. And the vitamins get caught up in the oil, are eliminated without being digested, and are not absorbed by the horse as well.

However, I thought I read that on Dr. Kellon's site, and when I went to look it up, I saw that she recommends feeding vitamin E with fat or oil present for just the reason that you mentioned. So I must have read the conflicting information elsewhere. Thank you for pointing that out. I hate to cite anything that's incorrect! I will have to research the gallbladder/intestinal theory more - sorry about that.
     
    03-05-2011, 03:33 AM
  #17
Foal
Ok two opposing views, western vs holistic.


From horseadvice.com:

As already stated, the idea that you cannot feed oil (fats) because horses don't have gall bladders is horse poo-poo. Bile, the secretion made by the liver and stored in gall bladders by other species, is secreted somewhat continuously in horses. Besides other functions it helps digest fats and oils by emulsifying them.

It is an observed and measured fact that that horses digest and absorb fats efficiently. It is true that oils do not have other important nutrients so should be considered a form of supplemental energy after other essential nutreints have bee met. For more on all this see the article on Fats in the Horses Diet.
DrO




Holistic/equine nutritionists insight/reposted from barnmice:
Horses And Oil Don't Mix - Barnmice Equestrian Social Community


I'm adding it because so many people are asking questions about "how to feed oil to a horse". This post is by Marijke van de Water, one of the most amazing equine nutritionists I have known. Her findings are both 'results driven' and controversial. This one in particular, goes against many of the articles you read on the web, especially the articles that the "big feed companies" put out. Remember everyone, those companies are responding to trends and marketplace, not the interest of the horse (regardless of what their pretty sites may say). If you want it, they will make it.

Now Marijke's post:

Question: I was told by an animal nutritionist that I should give my mare oil to help her coat and thin condition. I have also heard that oil is not good for horses? Why would that be? He did not recommend one over the other.

Answer from Marijke van de Water: Your animal nutritionist is recommending canola oil, corn oil, or some other vegetable oil to fatten up your horse. This recommendation is based on the fact that fats provide energy in a very concentrated form thus making it very difficult to burn off quickly. Fats are very slow to metabolize. One calorie of fat is equivalent to 3 pounds of oats or 6 pounds of hay. Very dense indeed. But is a daily feeding of 1/2 to 1 cup of oil from questionable sources a healthy cure-all to weight gain?

Vegetable oils in this form are poor-quality oils, all of which are polyunsaturated. This means that these oils are unstable with very poor resistance to heat and/or light. They easily release free electrons which are the culprits in free radical damage. The resulting cell damage is implicated in cancer, heart disease, and other chronic diseases related to aging and unless you buy organic many corn and canola crops are genetically modified as well.

It is significant that horses have no gallbladder – they don’t need one! The natural equine finds no puddles of concentrated fat in his foraging and if he/she did the reaction would be a “what in the heck was that?” lip curl. Can you imagine drinking a cup of oil without your gallbladder? I drank 1/2 cup of olive oil (twice), a relatively healthy oil, over 2 or 3 hours with my gallbladder intact and I can tell you my liver never worked so hard. The gallbladder acts as a timer that shoots bile (bile digests fat) within 20 minutes of ingesting fat. Without it the liver releases bile at random and thus becomes easily congested and overworked with excess dietary fats.

Fats slow down the normal rate that the stomach empties its food into the intestine so adding oil to grain means that the digestion of grains is abnormally slowed down, thus affecting stomach overload, gut motility, adequate enzyme activity, and energy. Horses have a small stomach designed to empty quickly. That is the reason they eat almost continuously. Replacing grain/hay calories with fat calories means a significant loss in protein, fibre, and minerals.

The key to healthy weight gain is finding the appropriate grain/hay combination for your particular horse based on breed, lifestyle, and biochemistry; correcting any nutritional deficiencies; and ensuring optimum digestive function with good enzyme activity with probiotics.
     
    03-05-2011, 04:19 AM
  #18
Weanling
I give my horse this...

TRM IRELAND - Curragh Carron Oil
     
    03-05-2011, 10:46 AM
  #19
Foal
TheGrassIsGreener-

I would love to know where she got the oil calorie information. ONE calorie of oil is equivalent to 3lbs of oats or 6lbs of hay? Wow, I think not.
The polyunsaturated fat comment she has, I suspect, was just thrown in there to sound smart. (As you read this next part, keep in mind cells are made up of molecules, which are made up of atoms, which are surrounded by electrons.) Firstly, free radicals happen when an atom has an uneven number of electrons surrounding it, so it becomes a free radical and steals electrons from other, normal, balanced atoms. The atom now has a balanced number of electrons whereas the atom stolen from is now unbalanced and, therefore, a free radical. When this process goes too far, it results in the death of a cell. Understanding Free Radicals and Antioxidants
Secondly, polyunsaturated fats do NOT cause free radicals. Polyunsaturated fats are fats that are bonded to each other weaker than other fats are (compare the molecular bond of ice vs that of water.) In other words, polyunsaturated fats are liquid at room temperature and regular fats are solid. (Think vegetable oil vs bacon grease left out.) Polyunsaturated Fats

So, no, polyunsaturated fats don't cause free radicals. The genetically modified food comment she makes irks me, but that's a different topic.

The liver does not 'shoot bile at random', either. Because the gallbladder is the place where the bile from the liver is stored until used, and horses don't have a gallbladder, the release of bile is not triggered or timed at all. It is just constantly flowing into the intestines. As a result, the liver is not going to be overworked unless you feed your horse alcohol.

Her personal experiment with oil: First, gross.
Second, how on earth would she know how hard her liver was working? It's not like natural bodily occurrences are tiring! And it would not be her liver working so hard, it would've been the gallbladder... which would really not put any strain on it at all because that is the very main function of that organ; just releasing bile.

It's true that fats slow digestion, but I can only see this as a positive thing. Horses ARE designed to eat continuously because their stomach empties quickly, so wouldn't a full tummy for an extra 1/2-1 hour be good? And, if the horse keeps eating, there's no danger of their stomach rupturing since they don't really utilize their full stomach capacity. Past the stomach, bile comes into play, so I would imagine it wouldn't be any slower than whatever else.

TheGrassIsGreener- Thank you for posting that, but in my opinion, this woman should not be listened to. :) Oil is just fine so long as you're not feeding your horse a gallon a day and I think it's a very efficient way to provide extra calories without extra bulk.
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    03-05-2011, 10:57 AM
  #20
Foal
NoHorse- I can't argue with you! Thank you very much for posting that very educated response, and I will love to dig into your link as well - keen to learn more about the whole free radical/antioxidant thing and how that actually WORKS. I try to be as informed as I can and love to truly LEARN about horsekeeping - what works, and what doesn't and more importantly WHY so I can make informed decisions for my horse.

I think I picked the wrong career - this stuff so fascinates me, yet here I am working in advertising! Lol
     

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