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Purina vs Nutrena

This is a discussion on Purina vs Nutrena within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Empower horse feed manufacturing problem
  • Nutrena empower re call

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    07-26-2011, 11:25 PM
  #31
Started
Since when is being direct with a question aggressive? When somebody comes here blowing what I consider smoke with nothing to back it besides the companies words I am going to question it and have my links ready to back WHY I am asking.

If you look though any of my post I am always direct makes things much easier to understand :)

Life isn't all butterflies and rainbows
     
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    07-27-2011, 07:14 AM
  #32
Started
No butterflies?! *gasp*

Being direct implies that you're simply stating the question. That's not what you did. I saw plenty of posts of "direct questions" that didn't include any snide undertones. The way you phrased your posts, to me, seemed more like a closed-minded accusation.

I worked for a show barn in high school that also sold feed - purina included. We had to be trained to sell the purina feed and it was very thorough, informative, and included extensive information about the company's r&d, products, and equine nutrition requirements. Obviously, I can't post a training manual on here or the seminars we did. The knowledge I gained from that, imo, is just as valuable as an internet link. Not everything learned comes from reading about it online.

The company is as successful as it us for a reason.
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    07-27-2011, 10:00 AM
  #33
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggysue    
Holly if the purina feeds are so great why are all the tags "products" instead of actual ingredients and why is it that Purina has to be forced into recalls when needed instead of doing them BEFORE the FDA or anybody else steps in

And why is it that when you look at the Livestock testing done Purina always has MORE citations then any other company
Honestly, most of the Purina products that have come out in the last few years (Ultium, Wellsolve) do list the ingredients so I think the company is trending in that direction because it is becoming more important to the consumer. The main reason for the vagueness on the tag is to limit tag copy by other companies. I cut and pasted an official response from one of Purina's Phd's:
"I have also been asked why Purina chooses to use collective terms (groupings) when listing ingredients in the feed tags rather than listing specific ingredients by name. The answer to this question is also the answer to the question of why the Purina horse feed tags list only the minimum required nutrients in the guaranteed analysis and nothing more. Land O’Lakes Purina Feed is the only feed company in the United States that maintains their own herd of horses and conducts equine nutrition research to develop and test their horse feeds before those feeds are ever sold to a customer. For example, when Purina develops a premium feed such as Strategy or Ultium, years of research first determine what the nutrient concentrations in the feed should be to support the desired performance in the horse. This information is then used to formulate a test feed, which is then fed to the research horses and the desired performance measurements are collected. If the feed does not perform as projected, the formula is changed, and the process starts again. When the results of these feeding trials are acceptable, the feed is then test-marketed in various areas in the country to ensure that the feed performs as intended in a larger variety of horses and in real life feeding situations. The entire process takes years to complete. When a company puts so much time, effort and resources into developing the best horse feeds they possibly can, they are not likely to put more information than necessary on their tags to share with their competitors. I tell horse owners that Purina does not share the results of their proprietary research with their competitors, but they do share it with their customers because they put that research in every bag of premium horse feed that they manufacture."

Likewise, I do think the trend is going to be towards more information in the future because consumers are demanding it. So keep asking, that is how change happens!!!

As for recalls - The policy now is to be as transparent as possible and post all recalls on their websites. My experience with Purina is that they usually tend to err on the precautionary side.

I am not sure about the citations you are talking about, can you direct me to a website?

     
    07-27-2011, 10:05 AM
  #34
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggysue    
Holly do you happen to know the IRON levels in the Wellslove products? I know several people with IR horses that had it tested and it was higher then it should have been for the type of product it is marketed to be
I honestly don't know...but I will see if I can find the answer for you!
     
    07-27-2011, 02:16 PM
  #35
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggysue    
Holly do you happen to know the IRON levels in the Wellslove products? I know several people with IR horses that had it tested and it was higher then it should have been for the type of product it is marketed to be
Here is some information that may help. Purina does add some Iron to Wellsolve but it is just enough to cover minimum requirements for the horse when fed at recommended levels. If you test Wellsolve however you will probably get a higher Iron level then you would expect. This is because generally a lot of the low starch ingredients in the product that come from plant sources contain iron. The thing is that most plant sources of iron are poorly absorbed by the body. Whereas animal sources of iron are more readily absorbed, but since horses eat plants then some added iron is needed in the diet. Just because a test is done showing iron levels in WellSolve to be potentially higher then desirable doesn't mean that the horse actually absorbs that amount of iron.
     
    07-27-2011, 05:39 PM
  #36
Started
See Holly the problem with adding iron to any feed is that there is "normally" an abundance of it in the forage and no need to add it to balance the diet.

Horses with metabolic problems actually react to iron in feeds and it causes them MORE issues.

Purina is successful because of advertising NOT research.

Take it as close minded if you like SEA but I have done my research

Holly I will look for the livestock feed violations pages again might take me a bit they can be tricky to find LOL
     
    07-27-2011, 05:42 PM
  #37
Started
WOW found that one quick
http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/AHID/docs/...dsheet2010.pdf
     
    07-27-2011, 05:43 PM
  #38
Started
Old thread with a bunch of them
Livestock Feed Violations
     
    07-27-2011, 07:54 PM
  #39
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggysue    
see Holly the problem with adding iron to any feed is that there is "normally" an abundance of it in the forage and no need to add it to balance the diet.

Horses with metabolic problems actually react to iron in feeds and it causes them MORE issues.

Purina is successful because of advertising NOT research.

Take it as close minded if you like SEA but I have done my research

Holly I will look for the livestock feed violations pages again might take me a bit they can be tricky to find LOL
I too pointed out that there is an abundance of iron in forage BUT it is poorly absorbed...so just because it is in there doesn't mean the horse is utilizing it.

I respect your opinion but would have to disagree. Most successful companies would fail overtime if all they had was advertising and not the proven success to back it up. I worked for the company for 12 years and know what goes on at that research farm everyday, it's groundbreaking stuff and the company really does have the best interest of the animal in mind!
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    07-27-2011, 09:03 PM
  #40
Started
Then why are all the purina recalls forced recalls instead of Purina stepping up and doing it at the sign of trouble.


Merck Veterinary Manual
Quote:
The dietary maintenance requirement for iron is estimated to be 40 ppm. For rapidly growing foals and pregnant and lactating mares, the requirement is estimated to be 50 ppm. Virtually all commercial concentrates formulated for horses and most forages contain iron well in excess of the recommended concentrations. Only horses suffering chronic blood loss (eg, parasitism) should be considered to be at risk of iron deficiency. Excess iron intake potentially interferes with copper utilization.
just a quick link on my way out door tonight
     

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