Rice bran to add fat to diet - Page 9 - The Horse Forum

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post #81 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 07:22 AM
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You might want to check prices with a place that does restaurant supply and see what a big jug of the various cooking oils cost. Don't use oil meant strictly for fryolators. They often have a conditioner to make it last through high temp cooking.

Flax oil or Linseed oil is known to spontaneously combust. That's the oil binder in paints, the old fashioned wood conditioner oil. Not sure about toxicity as far as eating massive amounts. I would consider fire in a horse barn pretty toxic. It's oily rags that have been the villain in all the documented cases so maybe as a feed additive it's off the hook. I use it occasionally on old furniture and tool handles. Makes me nervous enough so that I use a cotton rag and bury the thing out back when I'm done.

Dr. Valentine knows her drafts. I wouldn't be afraid of anything she says.

A coffee bean grinder should work slick on the flax seeds. I've been using one for 20 yrs for my coffee. You get so you can control the particle size easily. In the case of flax I'd just push down and let it rip.

I do know that much oil is going to make feed pans knarly real quick. Get a couple extra so you can switch them out and wash them good.

I've never had to deal with a boarding situation. I imagine what the help will tolerate varies widely. I think I would try getting a 5 gallon pail with a tight lid and grinding the flax ahead of time and putting each meal ration in an individual plastic bag. Plastic bags and tight bucket lid should help with a lot of the degradation of it as far as oxidation goes. Also tight lid - no air- no air - no fire. The fire thing is probably just pure paranoia on my part but my house is 265 yrs old. It would go poof!

The cheap big store brand jugs of cooking oil here are soy oil. The label does sometimes have the caveat that it could contain sunflower, canola, safflower, corn at times. I imagine whatever crop of oilseed is cheaper at the time goes. Not at all a problem as far as a feed additive goes. I've used it from time to time with some of the skinny horses I've brought home. I've never used more than a measuring cup full at a time though.

I'm definitely interested in what the tests say and what you work out. Never know when another draft or muscle head stock horse might follow me home.
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post #82 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 09:07 AM
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These things are always interesting, my big concern is that an overload of triglycerides into the system could also have some worrying implications on the horses metabolism and also on risks of heart disease and increased obesity
I think it would be wise to stick with the omega 3 type oils
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post #83 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman View Post
Been looking at flaxseed now too, since I found somebody stating 1 lb per day would help a lot with sweet itch. I was concerned about prussic acid. Was always told raw flax only up to 50 grams more is toxic, unless cooked. Now I'm seeing soaking brings out toxicity, cooking destroys all the goodies, and countless young folks swear it's not toxic whereas oldtimers say to be careful......all that together...I probably won't go over 4 or 5 oz, just to stay safe, once my Omega Horseshine is finished and I use the bulk seed
What is the difference between whole flax and the Omega?...Is it just a cost factor? If you have to soak it, how long? I'll be revisiting this later thought later when my Omega gets low.
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post #84 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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These things are always interesting, my big concern is that an overload of triglycerides into the system could also have some worrying implications on the horses metabolism and also on risks of heart disease and increased obesity
I think it would be wise to stick with the omega 3 type oils
That was my concern at first too Jaydee. However, from my understanding, is that the horses muscles use that fat after allowing so much 20-25% in their diets correctly. If I was to only add 10%, the muscles wouldn't use the fat correctly, and that is when you would get the obesity.

I have been in a dilemma for over a year with this. I can only go this route, for now and trust what I've been told. I've been dealing with other professionals for this past year, with no real answers or help.

I am definitely trying to up the exercise in the roundpen now that she is going to be four next month and seemed, yesterday, to actually handle it well as far as her 'noodle legs'. Trail riding will continue, as well.
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post #85 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 10:40 AM
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The Omega Horseshine is processed, has probiotics added also, will not go bad for two years, I believe.
I'm changing back to my all home cooked diet for my horses, now it makes sense with another horse. So I looked for bulk flax and found it, $32 for 50lbs, it's on order.

Boiling linseed is a royal mess! They need to be soaked overnight, then boiler for 2 hours. Gooey, sticky, Burns easily. Is used in a hot mash, or mixed into an already moist feed. In dry feed it remains a big blob which sticks to their teeth

I've done a lot of reading and all says no problem with the prussic acid.
It says grind it, a big bag full and keep it in the freezer so it doesn't go rancid.
I used to grind a day's worth and keep it in the fridge until feeding.
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post #86 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help Sue...

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Originally Posted by SueNH View Post

Dr. Valentine knows her drafts. I wouldn't be afraid of anything she says.

I know, but it sure is a difficult concept to swallow...especially with people who think I'm crazy and don't have an understanding for dealing with drafts or EPSM. I'm trusting this right now and going forward.

A coffee bean grinder should work slick on the flax seeds. I've been using one for 20 yrs for my coffee. You get so you can control the particle size easily. In the case of flax I'd just push down and let it rip.

How long can whole or ground flax last? It doesn't get horribly hot her in San Diego and I'm a mile from the beach with a sea breeze...so that may help a little. I'm using the Omega, for now, but may re-visit this later.

I do know that much oil is going to make feed pans knarly real quick. Get a couple extra so you can switch them out and wash them good.

Yeah, I'm finding this out. Good idea.

I've never had to deal with a boarding situation. I imagine what the help will tolerate varies widely. I think I would try getting a 5 gallon pail with a tight lid and grinding the flax ahead of time and putting each meal ration in an individual plastic bag. Plastic bags and tight bucket lid should help with a lot of the degradation of it as far as oxidation goes. Also tight lid - no air- no air - no fire. The fire thing is probably just pure paranoia on my part but my house is 265 yrs old. It would go poof!

Well, I feed my guys myself, except for the hay. I am out there everyday no matter what. I will be starting work again in a couple weeks, so on those days it will be an evening visit...so I am trying to get somewhat coordinated before then. I can pay to have someone feed my guys, but the whole system is so crazy right now...even for me. Dealing with oil etc won't go over well. So, once I get this organized and it seems like I could actually ask someone else to do this, I can look into it then. I think people put their rations in baggies and label them and then the ranch help feeds it.


I'm definitely interested in what the tests say and what you work out. Never know when another draft or muscle head stock horse might follow me home.

Trust me, so am I.
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post #87 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman View Post
The Omega Horseshine is processed, has probiotics added also, will not go bad for two years, I believe.
I'm changing back to my all home cooked diet for my horses, now it makes sense with another horse. So I looked for bulk flax and found it, $32 for 50lbs, it's on order.

Boiling linseed is a royal mess! They need to be soaked overnight, then boiler for 2 hours. Gooey, sticky, Burns easily. Is used in a hot mash, or mixed into an already moist feed. In dry feed it remains a big blob which sticks to their teeth

I've done a lot of reading and all says no problem with the prussic acid.
It says grind it, a big bag full and keep it in the freezer so it doesn't go rancid.
I used to grind a day's worth and keep it in the fridge until feeding.
In the good old days (ha ha) we used to boil linseed and oats in small boiler to get condition on the show horses. I once tried boiling a small amount in an old pressure cooker in the kitchen and it exploded all over the 'stippled ceiling - not sure what you call the effect in the US but its a sort of heavily textured finish that was really fashionable at one time. It took me ages to scrub it all off.
OHLady - I know what you're saying about getting to the point where you'll give anything a go so on this you just have to trust in what the research is saying and play it by ear really
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post #88 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
In the good old days (ha ha) we used to boil linseed and oats in small boiler to get condition on the show horses. I once tried boiling a small amount in an old pressure cooker in the kitchen and it exploded all over the 'stippled ceiling - not sure what you call the effect in the US but its a sort of heavily textured finish that was really fashionable at one time. It took me ages to scrub it all off.
OHLady - I know what you're saying about getting to the point where you'll give anything a go so on this you just have to trust in what the research is saying and play it by ear really
Ahhhhh....popcorn ceiling texture?...lol.

I will keep everyone updated. If the test comes back positive, I will probably start a new thread titled EPSM, in case someone else is looking for clarity in a similar situation.
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post #89 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 11:53 AM
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We used to have wallpaper like this, which would be painted over....called it "Rauhfaser"...rough fiber.....little bit like plastered surface, with a grain here and there.........I can imagine exploding flax would produce that, yeah.......
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post #90 of 101 Old 03-07-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldhorselady View Post
The four cups of oil would be for my 2000lb percheron and the 1100lb pinto gets 2 cups.
They're both getting half the dosage Dr. Valentine says could cause irritation- 4 cups for a 1000 lb horse, or 8 cups for a 2000 lb horse. Regardless, you'd have to be rich to afford to supplement that much flaxseed oil, and your horses wouldn't be willing to eat it even if you were

Quote:
Originally Posted by SueNH View Post
Flax oil or Linseed oil is known to spontaneously combust. That's the oil binder in paints, the old fashioned wood conditioner oil. Not sure about toxicity as far as eating massive amounts. I would consider fire in a horse barn pretty toxic. It's oily rags that have been the villain in all the documented cases so maybe as a feed additive it's off the hook. I use it occasionally on old furniture and tool handles. Makes me nervous enough so that I use a cotton rag and bury the thing out back when I'm done.
I hadn't heard that before- but there's even a section on it in the linseed oil article on Wikipedia (and if it's on Wikipedia it must be true ) Linseed oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia From what I understand, the linseed oil used to oil furniture is processed differently than the food grade stuff, but I don't know how that affects combustibility Either way, if I ever spill any while feeding to my horse, I'll definitely be careful what I do with the paper towel I use to clean it up!
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