Supplements *Senior "hot" horse*
   

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Supplements *Senior "hot" horse*

This is a discussion on Supplements *Senior "hot" horse* within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Smart flex senior or corta-flx
  • My horse has been on smartpak calm ultra for two days and I already see a differenance is that possible?

 
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    03-24-2011, 12:56 AM
  #1
Super Moderator
Supplements *Senior "hot" horse*

Currently, I have Lacey on these "Majesty's Flex Wafers" ( Majesty's Flex Wafers - Horse Treats from SmartPak Equine )
Since she has a bit of stiffness and "Mare Magic" since she's basically bonkers in the spring/summer.

And I'm wondering if I should change any of that up.

Someone said that I should try her on a magnesium supplement for her hottness instead of the Mare Magic. Personally, I'm pretty happy with how she's been on the Mare Magic, but a magnesium supplement is much cheaper than Mare Magic so $$-wise, I'd like to switch. But, I'm afraid that she'll go straight into crazy mode if I switch. And since Lacey in crazy mode basically terrifies me, I don't reeeeeaaaalllllly want to go there.
So is a magnesium supplement a definite "will work" situation if Mare Magic is helping her?
Her spring/summer time crazy doesn't really coincide with her heat cycles, that I've seen, but she is basically in a highly hormonal state 24/7 during those times of the year so maybe it does. Basically, it seems like she never goes out of heat, just sometimes it's more of a "raging" heat than others. So far this year it's been much better, but I started her on Mare Magic before the first signs of a heat cycle and she's not around males of any species, so yeah.. She has gone into heat this spring so far and she was definitely crazier during it, but it was a calmer sort of crazy. Kind of like a crazy, but medicated, person.

And then, I'm wondering if I should get her on more of a glucosamine supplement. The one she's on now (those wafers, only 2500mgs of glucosamine, some MSM, some chondroitin) has helped her be a lot less stiff, but there is still just a little tinge of stiffness in her hind end (the only place she shows any sort of stiffness) every once in a while. So I'm not sure I should get her on something like Smartpak's "Smartflex Senior" ( SmartFlex Senior - Equine Joint Supplements from SmartPak Equine ) or if I should let it be since she really is doing fine and maintaining with what she's on now...
She's obviously comfortable in her daily life, it's just basically when I pick out her back feet she does a lot of adjusting before she's comfortable and lets me pick. But otherwise, she's not dropping a hip or taking a short step or anything else that would signal a bigger issue.

So what do you think I should do? I'm happy with where I am but I don't want to be doing her a disservice and not providing the best I can for her.

Sorry for the giant post! Kudos to you if you read all that. :)
     
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    03-24-2011, 01:07 AM
  #2
Trained
You could try SmartCalm or SmartCalm Ultra. They have magnesium. Ultra has tryptophan to help even more. It's pricier than Mare Magic, but might work better with the magnesium. Abby's on SmartCalm and calmed her down right away. She's more anxious than hot though. It starts working after about 2 weeks if you wanted to order a 28 day supply to try it.
     
    03-24-2011, 01:50 AM
  #3
Trained
I definitely think you need to up her to a better quality joint suppiment that offers more than what she is getting now with those wafers. I have Nelson on the SmartFlex Senior (plus Adequan) and what I like about the SmartFlex Senior is that you are getting more bang for your buck.

The digestive, the highest amounts of joint care *12,000mg of msm +* and ingredients to provide other avenues of senior equine care.

My suggestion, is call smartpak tomorrow and talk to them, see what they say.
     
    03-24-2011, 10:16 AM
  #4
Started
The SmartFlex Senior is a great idea, but it's pretty expensive. You could try SmartFlex I Maintenance if you want more glucosamine than the flex wafers and are trying to save a few bucks. It comes in powder and pellet form. It has 4,000 mg of glucosamine instead of 2,500 like the flex wafers and it also has 5,000 mg of MSM instead of 2,500. The powder is $19.95 and on SmartPak the flex wafers are $22.95. Here's a link for it: SmartFlex I Maintenance - Equine Joint Supplements from SmartPak Equine


Magnesium can help calm a horse, control metabolism, and help build muscles. The SmartCalm has both magnesium and vitamin B1 in it and the SmartCalm Ultra has magnesium, vitamin B1, and L-Tryptophan. Both are pretty pricey, but I've heard good things about them. Here is a link to a magnesium supplement that is quite a bit cheaper though: Magnesium 3,000 - Equine Metabolic Supplements from SmartPak Equine

Good luck with your girl :]
     
    03-24-2011, 10:26 AM
  #5
Foal
If you want a reletively inexpensive joint supplement...I have been using smart MSM from Smartpak, and it has worked fantastic for my mare. She is still young but sustained a back hock injury when she was 2 and I noticed during weather changes she was stiff..but the MSM (and the dosage in it) has helped alot. I have used a gluclosomine/msm combo from smartpak too (msm wasnt as high a dosage as the smart msm) but didnt get the same results. I also used the smart calm before for my gelding...but didnt really see as much results. Have recently started him on quiesinece (sp?) thru smartpak and am seeing some results. I had my other gelding on it too because it supposed to be good for the hard to lose fat for easy keepers...but had to take him off it after 6 days...it totally zoned him out, and being he was a pretty calm horse already, it wasnt what he needed.
     
    03-24-2011, 10:37 AM
  #6
Trained
If your looking for something cheap for her joints I would look to IM injections. You can get a generic one at my vet for $13 per dose [given once a month]

Personally I don't think joint supplements work for most horses. They do help some horses, but not the majority, and usually only more severe cases.
     
    03-24-2011, 11:10 AM
  #7
Trained
^^ I agree Gypsy, nothing beats IM's.

If you are going to invest in an oral, do not invest in any suppliment that offers less than the needed doses. For example, in order for MSM to be effective, you need at least 10,000mg.
     
    03-24-2011, 11:51 PM
  #8
Green Broke
How old is she?

I have had good luck with Corta-Flx with added MSM. MSM is cheap by itself, only $8-12 a month to feed. I add a 1/2 dose to a full ounce of Corta-Flx. Bigdweb.com has the best prices on Corta-Flx and the gallon is very affordable per-month. I have a $10 off coupon floating around if you want to order from there.

As far as "mareness," I would really consider her overall diet. My mare got a LOT better when I pulled her off all grains and feeds containing grain products. Her diet has no corn, barley, molasses, wheat, grain by-products, etc. She gets 1 lb of chopped alfalfa hay, 1 cup of oats (for fun), 1/2 cup of ground flax, and a vitamin/mineral supplement, with free choice grass hay.

Feeds that contain anything I mentioned above, or any feed that is "high starch," can have a negative effect on a horse's behavior, especially one who's already prone to hormonal issues, at least IME. Also, high calorie and/or high start hays or grazing can also effect behavior. Some horses have a sensitivity to alfalfa hay, so if they're fed more than a couple of pounds they can act quite hyper.

Turnout time also plays a big role in behavior. Horses need room and time to run off pent up energy. They need at least a 100x100' area (per-horse) for at least 4-6 hours a day. Some horses need even more room and/or time outside. Personally, I prefer my horses out 24/7 with just stall time for feed. They have shelters, trees, and blankets during the winter. We have very little lameness trouble, (knock on wood) NO colics in YEARS, and no other real illnesses. Horses that live outside (with adequate shelter and footing) tend to be healthier, body and mind, than horses that spend any sizable amount of time in a stall.

Once you have her diet as calm as possible and on as much turnout as possible, then you can consider adding a calming supplement. If the mare magic is working, I wouldn't change. You might be able to buy bulk rasberry leaves online cheaper though. That is all that mare magic is.
     
    03-25-2011, 12:16 AM
  #9
Super Moderator
Thanks for the suggestions! I very much appreciate them all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    

My suggestion, is call smartpak tomorrow and talk to them, see what they say.
I'm kind of scared of calling them since I'm basically the most gullible person ever, but I will give it a shot tomorrow. I'll just report back with whatever they recommend and have you guys make sure they aren't pulling my leg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    
How old is she?

I have had good luck with Corta-Flx with added MSM. MSM is cheap by itself, only $8-12 a month to feed. I add a 1/2 dose to a full ounce of Corta-Flx. Bigdweb.com has the best prices on Corta-Flx and the gallon is very affordable per-month. I have a $10 off coupon floating around if you want to order from there.

As far as "mareness," I would really consider her overall diet. My mare got a LOT better when I pulled her off all grains and feeds containing grain products. Her diet has no corn, barley, molasses, wheat, grain by-products, etc. She gets 1 lb of chopped alfalfa hay, 1 cup of oats (for fun), 1/2 cup of ground flax, and a vitamin/mineral supplement, with free choice grass hay.

Feeds that contain anything I mentioned above, or any feed that is "high starch," can have a negative effect on a horse's behavior, especially one who's already prone to hormonal issues, at least IME. Also, high calorie and/or high start hays or grazing can also effect behavior. Some horses have a sensitivity to alfalfa hay, so if they're fed more than a couple of pounds they can act quite hyper.

Turnout time also plays a big role in behavior. Horses need room and time to run off pent up energy. They need at least a 100x100' area (per-horse) for at least 4-6 hours a day. Some horses need even more room and/or time outside. Personally, I prefer my horses out 24/7 with just stall time for feed. They have shelters, trees, and blankets during the winter. We have very little lameness trouble, (knock on wood) NO colics in YEARS, and no other real illnesses. Horses that live outside (with adequate shelter and footing) tend to be healthier, body and mind, than horses that spend any sizable amount of time in a stall.

Once you have her diet as calm as possible and on as much turnout as possible, then you can consider adding a calming supplement. If the mare magic is working, I wouldn't change. You might be able to buy bulk rasberry leaves online cheaper though. That is all that mare magic is.
She's 26.
The only things she's on right now are 1lb of Purina's Enrich 32 (it was the only ration balancer available through my feed store), 1lb of beet pulp, about 7 pounds of alfalfa a day (I'm slowly cutting this out as the grass grows in), and unlimited grass hay, plus one of those wafers and the Mare Magic a day. So I don't think there's anything in there that should make her hot.
And she's hot whether she's on alfalfa or not (actually, when she's eating straight grass hay, her head goes through the roof), and even when she's been on timothy hay and a dry lot, no supplements (last summer at camp), she's hot.
She's also on full turnout. She's never locked in. She has a three acre pasture all to herself that she shares with two llamas.
I've been trying to get her exercising more to burn off some of that energy and so far this week I've gone on two 2 hour trail rides (mostly walking, some long trotting and long cantering) with her and I've lunged her everyday that I haven't ridden her. Hopefully I can keep that up in the coming weeks (I'm on spring break right now, school starts again next week), it's going to be my goal to keep it up.

I'm definitely open to suggestions about her diet and exercise. The one thing I can't totally change is the alfalfa. The llamas she lives with have to be on alfalfa (per their owner) and Lacey will steal their alfalfa if she doesn't get hers. However, she is actually calmer on the alfalfa than she is on most other hays so I don't think cutting that out is the ticket anyway.
     
    03-25-2011, 12:19 AM
  #10
Green Broke
Hmm, yeah, sounds like it might just be her, lol. I don't have any suggestions on her diet, it all sounds good to me. Have you talked to your vet about her attitude? Maybe he/she has some ideas for you.
     

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