Vitamin A and D Rain Rot....clever horse knows its coming? - Page 2
 
 

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Vitamin A and D Rain Rot....clever horse knows its coming?

This is a discussion on Vitamin A and D Rain Rot....clever horse knows its coming? within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Phatman for horses
  • Phatman vitamin and minerals

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    11-05-2013, 04:26 AM
  #11
Weanling
I love this forum. I'm learning lots.

I've never heard that about carrots before for rain rot. Really interesting.

And Greenbackjack, holy cow. What a big boy. I love tall drafty horses <3
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    11-11-2013, 11:33 AM
  #12
Foal
Well my mare had her third dose yesterday took it like a trooper. Thanks to the apple sauce trick!! The rain rot doesn't seem to be getting any worst and I have not tried to pick any scabs. Some of the scabs seems to come off with a gentle shedding blade.

So I have been searching for a new supplement to put in with her Timothy Balance hay cubes. The one I have been using Phatman....doesn't have enuf vitamin A. So I am wondering if I could maybe supplement her with vitamin A and D, and vitamin E gel caps?? Human vitamins! Any opinions?


I have been to several feed stores and there really isn't many horse supplements that have any more vitamin a then what is in my supplement now that I use. Even for pregnant or lactating mares!!


Thanks again for all the tips and help!!
     
    11-11-2013, 12:01 PM
  #13
Trained
Since I live in cow country you can imagine my shock and dismay when I found out the local feed stores didn't carry the injectable AD&E for cattle and I had to order it. So, I looked at using the human vits, and to get the same amount of Vit A, it ended up being very costly. For one horse maybe not so much, but for 10 plus......ouch. So I ordered the 250 ml bottle for around $40 with shipping.

So far my 2 who had dew poisoning have cleared up, no more meds needed. The one who had scratches has cleared up, and the one who got a goopy eye cleared up. The one that I tried just "because" and didn't really know if it would have any effect on is Wart. Wart is called that because she had the worst cast of juvenile warts I've ever seen when I bought her. She's had 3 doses of Vit AD&E, 3 cc's once a week, and she has almost NO warts. They started clearing up after the first dose, then after the 2nd it was really noticeable and after the 3rd dose......WOW!

Since I've had such great results, now I'm giving them all a small dose (5 cc's for the adults, 3 for the youngsters) once a month and we'll see if anyone has anymore problems come spring. I've really been amazed at how well and how quickly they've healed all on their own. I'm really lucky, mine are chow hounds and I can make up a little beet pulp, squirt the vits in and they'll all Hoover it right up.
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    11-11-2013, 02:53 PM
  #14
Started
What's the Vit A guaranteed analysis on the Phatman? It doesn't show it on their website. If you can get your hands on it, pick up a bag of Hoffman's. I've never used it (it only has a very limited availability in the US) but I really like the analysis and others on here have attested to the quality of the product. The product I use and you might be able to get is ADM GroStrong. They are "close" to you in Illinois.

You can certainly use the gelcaps but they are going to cost more. You will want to give 100,000 IU a day until you see results (typically about 2 weeks max) and then you can drop it down to once a week or once a month depending upon the horse. Some need more than others. If you can get the liquid into her, she will only need a dose once a month at most. You can squirt it on her hay, make a mash with pellets, mix it with applesauce... Don't make it harder than you have to. The liquid is the cheapest route. That one 100 ml bottle should last one horse 2-3 winters.

If it hasn't already been said, don't pick the scabs. Just leave them alone. They will fall off when the new hairs start pushing through. Plus they can be painful for some.
     
    11-13-2013, 01:21 PM
  #15
Foal
Phatman vitamins

Crude protein min % 5.5
Crude fibre. Max 2.5
Calcium Act. 9
Phosphorus 5
Salt. 19.3
Sodium. 7.5
Magnesium. 4
Potassium. 1
Cobalt mg/kg. 60
Iodine. 40
Copper. 500
Manganese 1000
Zinc. 3000
Chromium. 10
Vitamin A. Min. IU/kg. 250,000
Vitamin D. IU/kg. 60,000
Vitamin E. 6,000
Vitamin K. Mg/kg. 10
VitaminB12. Ug/kg. 1,500
Choline min. Mg/kg. 2,500
Niacin. 2,200
Panthotheric acid. 650
Folic acid. 100
Riboflavin 400
Thiamine. 450
Pyridoxine. 250
Biotin. Ug/kg. 80,000
Ascorbic acid mg/kg. 3,000
Fluorine Max. Mg/kg. 500


Premix contains added selenium at 20 mg/kg






There is a scoup that says 29.6 cc. My mare gets one scoup on top of her Timothy hay balance cubes. This mix was recommended by our vet she doesn't sell it or get any endorsements of any kind, it's what she uses on her horses!


To be honest I really haven't read up on just took her advice and went with it. Our gelding on the other hand is on Hoffmans. That's what the previous owners were feeding him ontop of hay cubes....not sure what kind of hay cubes but since we have had him he also gets the Timothy balance cubes but with Hoffmans. They both also receive a half of cup of ground flax with their meal! He seems to be unaffected by the rain rot. But he did have runny eyes when we first got him. But seemed to clear up after a week or two when in was in our care. Not sure what we did tha was different for him, except the hay cubes. Neither of my horses get any grain. Don't plan on giving them any.


Sorry if there is any mistakes hard to type on tablet computer is down!


So there you have the list, I did notice Hoffmans does have a higher vitamin A. Hope that this helps Left Hand Percheron!


So if I understand correctly I could just continue with a once a month dose 5cc of the vitamin a and d thru the winter until spring? Not have to add anything else to her food? So confused lol.


Thanks!
     
    11-13-2013, 01:35 PM
  #16
Super Moderator
The natural (the way nature intended) way for animals to get vitamins and mineral is with their food and unless there's a real deficiency I would not resort to injections
Vitamins that boost the immune system can help them fight the bacteria's that cause things like rain rot but so will your general management system - I have kept horses for many years and though I have seen some awful cases of rain rot and mud fever I have never had a single horse in my care suffer from either because I manage them in such a way to avoid it - and that was mostly living in the UK where we get very wet humid weather that those bacteria's thrive best in
They are also fed a good healthy diet with no added vitamins other than what's already in the feed.
     
    11-13-2013, 02:01 PM
  #17
Started
You could go with the once a month vit A but I wouldn't skip the vitamin/mineral blends because it's all part of her overall health.

I would settle of which ever blend you see better results with and because she has been a problem child, still dose her once a month, once every six weeks for this winter and see how she comes out in the spring. Compare apples to apples. I don't know what the dose of the Phatman's is but the Hoffman's is a staggering 200g (I did not realize their dosage was that high) with the equivalent of 120,000 IU Vit A. You should be able to 1/2 that amount once you get her cleared up. You might find that some extra A around Christmas and another dose at the start of spring is all she needs.

Another thought on the gelding. Is he on pasture with you and wasn't before? If he has had a history of goopy eyes, give him a dose around Christmas and because he stores the excess in his liver, he should stay clear until green grass comes back in.
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    11-13-2013, 02:07 PM
  #18
Started
Jaydee the A and D is an injectable but they are just pouring on the food. Works without the needle just fine.
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    11-13-2013, 02:32 PM
  #19
Foal
Yesterday when I was out to the barn I noticed my mare has lots of hair growing back on the dozens of bald spots she received from a nasty mare biting her constantly in her paddock, whom has since left, thankfully. Also noticed the spot on her back which was the size of my fist on her right side that was full of rain rot is drying up and flaky. She had to have been rolling, which she loves to do, and I also saw that the scabs are coming off themselves. Yay again!! So I will continue to give her the dose once a month, until spring. I am so pleased with the results....the other lady that has been struggling with scratches on her beautiful gelding since August has decided to give it a go!!

My gelding is on outdoor board just like the mare separate paddocks. He wasn't before we bought him from the breeder. Much happier horse then when we first got him. We have had him now for several months either then the odd carrot that he has been getting and the change in hay cubes nothing else has changed In His diet. But I will keep that in mind to give him a boost around Christmas.




Thanks so much for all your help, so happy that we are finally back on track with her!!
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    11-13-2013, 03:04 PM
  #20
Trained
I'm glad to hear your mare is doing so much better! I've noticed that my guys who had the dew poisoning & scratches have all cleared up and stayed cleared up even though we've had quite a bit of rain and heavy dews this year. The one who had the warts is down to 2 warts on her nose. I'm giving credit to the Vit AD&E for that because when I got her she was bad, more warts than I've ever seen. She seemed to keep breaking out with them and was not improving and I was thinking they were going to run a full 9 month course. As soon as she got the Vit ADE, she started to clear. After her 3rd and last weekly dose, she's down to 2 tiny warts. I'll continue with the monthly ADE through spring and see how we do when it comes back around to rainy season here. Sor far, I'm pretty pleased with such a simple and inexpensive fix.

And yes, it's an injectable vitamin for cattle but I'm drawing up 3 or 5 cc's, depending on the horse's age, and putting it over their feed. No injections given.
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