Vitamin A and D Rain Rot....clever horse knows its coming? - Page 3

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Vitamin A and D Rain Rot....clever horse knows its coming?

This is a discussion on Vitamin A and D Rain Rot....clever horse knows its coming? within the Horse Nutrition forums, part of the Horse Health category

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    11-13-2013, 05:10 PM
Super Moderator
I got that she had opted to put it into the feed but wasn't sure if she was just doing that as a last resort
I feed a complete pelleted feed and find it already has all the essential balance of vitamins and minerals in it - adding more of some to that could create an inbalance or an overload that could be even dangerous but it sounds as if the OP just feeds grass pellets
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    11-13-2013, 05:44 PM
Green Broke
Nutritional Requirements of Horses: Nutrition: Horses: Merck Veterinary Manual

Look at the recommended amount of Vitamin A.

Now look at the vitamin A in Safe Choice

SafeChoice Original Horse Feed by Nutrena

And Ultium

Purina Horse Feeds - ULTIUM

Healthy Edge

Purina Horse Feeds - STRATEGY

That's just 3 popular feeds falling way short. I'm sure I could pull up lots of others.

Granted there is some vitamin A in grass and hay but it starts diminishing the moment the grass is cut and continues to diminish as the hay ages. A good dose a few times over the winter isn't going to overdose them. Like anything else you have to use your head.

The ration balancer I generally use.

EQUI-PROŽ MVP Supplement Pellet | | Poulin Grain - Dairy, Equine, Pet, And Livestock Feeds

Not finding the vitamin content in the various hays that easily but I'm sure it's out there.
Trinity3205 and Cindy1961 like this.
    11-13-2013, 07:22 PM
A is one nutrient feed suppliers seem to think isnt a big deal. I have also heard recently again that the recommended amount is probably too low for many horses anyway when grass is is short supply. Plus lots of people fail to feed the minimum recommended daily amount of feed on top of that. It would be VERY hard for a horse tgo get too much A IMO. I now supplement A at 5 CCs of the cattle injectable over feed once a month during hay season. I also give my horses a pretty good ration balancer Triple Crown 30%. I still do the A tho and have for 5 years give or take now. NO more rain long as I keep them all on the routine. Its amazing really.

And it makes sense. Cattle have different feeds and supplements for different forages...why not horses?

My one mare got scratches bad on her one back leg last fall because I forgot to dose her early in the hay season enough. Plus it was very wet. I dosed her with the A, no topical treatment for the scratches. It was gone so fast all by iutself. Like a week or so. By itself. Still amazes me.
Cindy1961 likes this.
    11-14-2013, 10:11 AM
Super Moderator
I'm not too clear on the info from the Merck directory
It seems to say that the recommended is 30 IU per kg bodyweight, 1kg = just over 2lb so if I halve that it becomes 15 IU per lb bodyweight
For a horse that's 1000lb that would mean a suggested daily amount of 15000 IU
I probably have that wrong so please correct
It also says that a horse that's grazed on good pasture should have enough stored for 3 to 6 months
On top of that storage they will also get some their daily amount from hay - I haven't found any guidelines yet on hay - other than alfalfa hay has higher levels of Vit A than normal grass hay
I feed a Tripe Crown Safe Starch forage and TC low starch pellets and or Sentinel Senior which contain 3,500 IU /lb and 6000 IU/lb and 5,000 IU /lb respectively
I add some alfalfa pellets to that which also contain some Vit A
The Vitamin A toxicity level for horses is 454 IU /lb of bodyweight
    11-14-2013, 01:57 PM
Yes, those guidelines are the ones in question.

Also, I know it is completely not true that they have 3 to 6 months of storage. Maybe SOME horses...but others run out very fast. I think the more challenging the environment they need to keep healthy in, the faster they run out also. I think that is a very high estimate personally.

Hay looses beta carotene/A making stuff at about 10% a month after is is cut (E even faster 70% after a WEEK as a note which is also very important) If your hay is cut in the spring, by the time you feed it, it has lost a great deal of skin helping nutrients. Somewhere, the deficit needs to be made up. Horses on hay year round certainly need much more A and E.

Considering horses can utilize beta carotene out of good pasture at whatever rate they need, it stands to reason those rates vary per horse In the winter when on the same exact hard ration they recieve in the summer plus deficient hay, many become deficient. I notice it the most right around December-January here.

Someone needs to do a study on this. Its SO important and so many people don't supplement clearly low horses because they are afraid of overdosing. You should bump horses up in the winter during hay season to make up for the lack of grass. I find cheris suggestion of 5 CCs of cattle injectable over feed once a month to be perfect. No ODing. No rain rot. No guessing how many carrots I need to feed. Plus its cheaper. JME.

Does Your Horse Need Extra Vitamins? Maybe... - Kentucky Performance Products
Cindy1961 likes this.
    11-14-2013, 02:12 PM
Dreamcatcher, can you link me to the one you ordered? I want to see if anyone carries something like that around, I'm not familiar with it at all.

My BO has a horse right now that's got bad rain rot. I'm going to see if she can be my experiment and see if it helps clear it up
Cindy1961 likes this.
    11-14-2013, 02:22 PM
This is what I use. 100 ML at 5 CC doses will last a long time for only one or two animals. Vitamin A-D - Jeffers
Cindy1961 likes this.
    11-14-2013, 02:24 PM
Thanks! I'm going to see if she's up for experimentation. I'm going to do it for my guys too, they just got over some rain rot.. after me peeling it off them 4 days in a row.
    11-14-2013, 02:26 PM
Vitamin A & E content is one of the major reasons why I chose Triple Crown 30% Supplement over other ration balancers. My horse is on hay year round with limited grazing in the summer, so if he doesn't get it in his hard feed, he's not getting it. I still end up supplementing additional vitamin E with selenium, since my area is very selenium deficient and TC30 doesn't provide enough to be the only source of it. Vitamin D I don't tend to worry about as much.
    11-14-2013, 04:19 PM
Super Moderator
I would think that a lot must depend on the actual horse and the environment - though that wouldn't explain why my horses kept in the very muddy and mild winters of the UK never got rain rot or scratches/mud fever even though I never fed them any additional Vit A above what they got in their feed.
Maybe the fact that there is always some grass all year round there - but cases over there are still quite high so that wouldn't really explain it either
Cindy1961 likes this.

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