Ban Horse Slaughter in US - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 55 Old 12-12-2011, 08:31 PM
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From my perspective, there are a couple of drivers for the overpopulation.

1 - Fewer people want horses, but horses live a long time. All the surveys I've seen indicate the horse owning population is graying fast. But horses bred in 1990 are mostly still alive - and no one wants them. Their current owners do not, and no one wants to buy a 20 year old horse.

The mustang given to us may be fairly typical. He was bought for the husband. The husband turned out to be highly allergic to horses - and I guess no one thought to have him RIDE horses before buying one. The wife wants another kid, and sees her two horses as taking up too much time. So she had two horses to get rid of, and the instructor who knew the horses described the other horse as worthless.

20 years ago, he might have gone to a youngster. But in 2011, most youngsters prefer the Internet to horses. And while I didn't want a third horse, this one looks like a darn good match for us.

2 - The economy and feed situation is squeezing out a lot of recreational owners. If the owners of our new mustang pony could afford hay and boarding fees, they might have held on longer. But two horses at $325/month each was also killing their budget. And with hay in this part of AZ pushing $20/80 lb bale, it is going to get worse!

Although I don't like the idea of slaughter, I don't see many options. The current market glut is driven in part by breeding taking place in the 90s. Lord willing, the new mustang will be with us for 15 years, and my other two even longer (2026). Anyone want to forecast the horse market in 2026?

A horse bred in 2003 - during what I believe was a good market - can live until 2030+. 9 years from now, in 2020, at age 18, who is going to want him?

The problem is stupid people buying horses without ever thinking about how long a horse lives, or the expense of keeping them. That was why I fought against getting horses in my family - I view a horse as a 25 year investment.

Happily, I enjoy the horses and trying to learn to understand them and work with them. But in a society where half of the population has credit card debt of $10K and more because they don't think in advance, how do you solve the problem of stupid people buying horses they are not committed to?

If I knew the answer, I'd deserve a huge award from the horse world! Pity that I don't know the answer, and just cringe at the result.
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post #32 of 55 Old 12-12-2011, 09:00 PM
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One of the ways that the governement tries to keep the dog and cat population down is through lisecncing. If you must pay a fee to lisence you dog and cat, then you will (theoretically) think twice before adding them casually to your care. And penalizing those that do NOT lisence. That might be applied to horse breeding, but it would not say you cannot breed a horse, only that you must pay an annual lisencing fee for each animal owned or bred
. Then, that money (theoretically) goes toward the humane rescue and rehoming or euthanizing of unwanted , abandonned or abused animals, something mostly done by volunteer $ via Humane Society or SPCA.
Also, the more we put out the general attitude to not breed irresponsible, the more we can influence byb's. takes a long time, but it does happen.
Look at the campaign to spay and nueter pets. When I was a kid nobody spayed or nuetered. Now, it is the norm.
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post #33 of 55 Old 12-12-2011, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
Look at the campaign to spay and nueter pets. When I was a kid nobody spayed or nuetered. Now, it is the norm.
Not here where I live in PA. They simply don't give a $%^& even though it's free.....
And who enforces licensing? I'd be willing to bet that they don't have the time nor the personnel, nor the funds to hire enough people to ensure that all the animals in the city/county are licensed and (minimally, since it's required) their rabies vax.

So...maybe it's meant to deter...but the question is, 'does it?"?

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post #34 of 55 Old 12-13-2011, 06:13 AM
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As usual, penalize the responsible pet owners with licensing fees to pay for the idiots. Why do responsible people always end up paying? If they made it law that horses have to be licensed, do you honestly think that money would stay in the equine sector? Government will spend it on other BS. How are they going to enforce horse licensing? More taxpayer money.......Tired of paying for idiots that will continue being idiots. Tired of giving money to the government so they can just p**s it away, then turn around and find a way to get more.
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post #35 of 55 Old 12-13-2011, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
One of the ways that the governement tries to keep the dog and cat population down is through lisecncing. If you must pay a fee to lisence you dog and cat, then you will (theoretically) think twice before adding them casually to your care. And penalizing those that do NOT lisence.
I disagree with that. First, it's not the government that requires licensing. It's the city ordinances. The only time they enforce it is when your pet goes to the pound or if someone complains about your pets. Shhh, don't tell anyone, but we have only licensed one of our dogs because she ended up in the pound. We weren't penalized but did have to license her to get her back.

You'll probably call me irresponsible because of that. Oh well. I'm not and I do take responsibility for our animals. They get their necessary vaccines and care. They actually get better care than I do.
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post #36 of 55 Old 12-13-2011, 09:32 AM
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AKC tried to control BYB by making male be DNA'd after siring 7 litters in a lifetime and a female after 4 litters. They figured this would stop the puppy mills because they would have to spend more money on producing litters, plus the breeder having to register every litter first, etc. Well instead of helping stop the byb, the byb and puppy mills just made up their own kennel clubs and now register more than ever.
Since nobody could force anyone to stop being puppy mills and byb, how in the world do you think the government can stop people from breeding horses? If a person can breed their mare to their stud or the neighbors down the street and figure they can make a few bucks, they really don't care about if its registered or not, neither does the buyer. A couple hundred bucks or free for a horse is much better than spending $2000 or more for a weanling of good breeding.
Same as buying from a byb puppy. A couple of hundred bucks for a puppy sounds so much better than $1500 or more.
The majority of the people who want a baby horse or grown horse want to spend as less as possible. They feel they are getting a good deal. Of course, you usually get what you pay for in medical expenses down the road.
It would be impossible to govern breeding of horses, just like its impossible to govern breeding of dogs. Nobody has time to go to every back road farm/ranch and see if they are breeding. Someone mentioned the licensing of dogs. Where I live, you have to license in the city, but not the county. So, if you live in the county, a person can have ten dogs, they don't care.
This is a debate that can go on forever, which is has. Government can't keep people under control with drugs, guns, whatever. You really think they are going to worry about who is breeding garbage horses?
Not gonna happen. So, at least instead of starving or turning horses loose(yes, it happens all over the country) because a person doesn't want to spend the money to euthanize and bury if that is evn possible, they can send them to slaughter and end their life quickly. Is it the best answer, no. Do things happen at slaughter plants, yes. But its a part of life.
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post #37 of 55 Old 12-14-2011, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Remali View Post
Starve to death? What's wrong with euthanasia?
Nothing....but I have seen so many horses starving out there it's sad...I've called on them and more than once since them dead in the pasture later....Seems better to send to slaughter than to have all these people out there starving their horses!

Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.~John Wayne~
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post #38 of 55 Old 12-15-2011, 06:59 PM
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And why should the government be able to tell me how I should breed my horse.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #39 of 55 Old 12-15-2011, 07:32 PM
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I just hope this is used responsibly as an outlet for truly unwanted horses rather than an easy method of disposal for industries/disciplines who mass breed with the intention of just discarding the horses that don't measure up.

Laws & licensing are only followed by those who were responsible in the first place which renders them pretty **** useless. You can't legislate responsibility.

You just have to see your don't have to like it.
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post #40 of 55 Old 12-16-2011, 12:20 AM
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Some interesting, accurate info that challenges currently held beliefs..
VEW White Paper : Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
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