Help stop horse slaughter in america! - Page 20

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Help stop horse slaughter in america!

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        12-02-2011, 12:34 PM
    Originally Posted by Red Gate Farm    
    I'm wondering if the reopening of the plants will be by foreign investors again, or if it will be by Americans, hiring Americans and regulated by Americans to help ensure they are run according to the wishes of American people?

    And also to keep the money for the benefit of the American people.
    Is anything in America owned by Americans anymore?
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        12-02-2011, 12:38 PM
    Originally Posted by WSArabians    
    Is anything in America owned by Americans anymore?
    Yeah, I chuckled reading Reds post. It is a nice thought though. It should be that way.
        12-02-2011, 12:39 PM
    Originally Posted by Bearkiller    
    I'm not aware of any farms like that around here so I guess it doesn't quite apply to me. Just out of curiosity, how do you know they aren't trimmed or wormed if all you're doing is driving by? Sounds to me more like a hypothetical situation as opposed to an actual situation. But I guess you win, let's have the federal government issue licenses for owning stallions. Next we can have them tell us how many kids WE can have. Maybe we can then reach china's number of 13,000,000 abortions a year because that's an admirable goal.
    I'm talking about these farms where seizes and rescues are taking place all over. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these horses are not being maintained, and I won't make excuses for them.
    You're obviously confused bevause I didn't bring up the idea of licensing, and argued why it would not work. I said, if you cared to actually read, that you cannot govern who can and cannot own horses and/or stallions, and it would be a cold day in h*ll when someone tried.
    So, carry on..
        12-02-2011, 12:40 PM
    Originally Posted by goneriding    
    Yeah, I chuckled reading Reds post. It is a nice thought though. It should be that way.
    Absolutely it should. Unfortantely I think China is going to have America by the proverbial balls, if they don't already. And Canada will go with her. But that is a whole other subject.
        12-02-2011, 12:44 PM
    Read this, sounds like it will be American owned... but who knows.

    Horses could soon be slaughtered for meat in US - Yahoo! News
        12-02-2011, 01:36 PM
    On an article I read, it looked like it/they would be american owned.
        12-02-2011, 02:32 PM
    Well Bearkiller, I initially got my hackles up at your post about city folk and common sense, being a city dweller myself. But you do have a good point. By population density alone we have a high number of idiots per square foot. We also have an environment where people are to a fairly high extent, detached from what many of us could consider reality. Here in tree hugging Vancouver, if you want go be vegan, only buy "cruelty free" products, adopt from no-kill shelters and only buy from vegan stores and restaurants, it's entirely possible. You can also go buy your meat from walmart and assume your parents took your 16 year old dog to live out in the country. Here there are probably more people who haven't even seen a horse than those who have, and those who can afford to own and board often have only scratched the surface of what there is to know. You push the anti slaughter agenda here (or the issues surrounding feral horses, or PETA's various positions on rodeo, racing, etc...), and yes, you'll get a large negative response, coming from people whose experiences with horses are more than likely limited to seeing Hidalgo in the theatres.

    I'm not sure if it can be entirely blamed on a lack of common sense, but rather just a lack of exposure to some harsh realities (and no desire to face them). In the years I've lived here we've moaned about the harsh realities we are exposed to, like the city's homeless, but more often than not the demands are all about pressuring the government to throw money at it to fix it. There seems to be a general attitude of wanting to just have someone else make the upsetting things go away.

    I dunno, perhaps it is a bit off topic, but the way I see it this is the can of worms that is opened when you broach a topic like horse slaughter. It goes to show how much of a gray area it is.
        12-02-2011, 03:10 PM
    Originally Posted by Gremmy    
    By population density alone we have a high number of idiots per square foot.
    This is true. But only because they are condensed in the city due to ("possible", in this economy) proximity to work. That being said...a lot of the minor country stuff I've seen where I live include:
    1) Not de-worming a foal they got in PAYMENT from someone who couldn't pay, because she is "less than six months, so you don't have to".

    2) 10 + horses with a shed with a roof in a turn out pen knee deep in sh*^ and mud...literally. Horses were also wormed questionably (see above) and vaccinations also questionable.

    3) Refusal to spay or neuter cats despite it being FREE. Refusal from one person to go get a kitten with a hernia the size of a BASEBALL vet care because they "couldn't see spending...on a cat". Their other cat had three young kittens, and did I want them, "all the others died"?

    This is just recent matters concerning animals, there's a lot more, plus again, there's a lot of idiots in the city too...but...I'm not sure it's part of the "culture" to be stupid if you live in the city. Or maybe it depends where you are, and your decision to educate yourself.

    @ Bearkiller, I know your *opinion* on upper education, so I added that qualifier.

    Originally Posted by Gremmy    
    Here in tree hugging Vancouver, if you want go be vegan, only buy "cruelty free" products, adopt from no-kill shelters and only buy from vegan stores and restaurants, it's entirely possible.
    I think this is true in a lot of major cities, though not necessarily without any flak from others. ;) I have known a lot of vegetarians/vegans, and people who are very strongly "cruelty free". I also have known a lot of Buddhists, and as far as I know the shelters in my home town are no-kill. The qualifier being, they do make sure the animals are behaviorally sound. I don't imagine that bitey dogs stay at the nice, no kill shelter.

    Originally Posted by Gremmy    
    I'm not sure if it can be entirely blamed on a lack of common sense, but rather just a lack of exposure to some harsh realities (and no desire to face them).
    The word for this is ignorance, and it is only a dirty word if you choose to let it be. The answer is education, assuming the person is willing to listen.

    I firmly believe that if you can't kill it at least once, you really shouldn't be eating it. I have stated that on the vegetarian thread. It is one of the reasons that I seldom eat meat. I do not, however, align myself with PETA or any of the other agenda-laden (and BS in my mind) "animal rights groups", nor will I condemn others for eating meat when I myself choose not to.
    All my pets are sterilized. I rescue animals. I think the government is full of $%^& and we the people have a RESPONSIBILITY to ourselves under the declaration of independence to change things when the government is no longer working for us. Oh,and I do vaccinate my children....

    (Am I sounding like a "typical" Occupy Wallstreet, stupid city-dweller yet?)

    It's all about ignorance and choice: it's only stupidity when you make the solid choice to maintain your ignorance instead of weighing the facts and making a SOUND decision regarding matters and your beliefs. I cannot and will not say that city people are, as a generality, "stupider" than country folk...that is simply not true.

    Stupid is, as stupid does, right? ;)

    PS: I strongly advocate the sterilization of pets to all my friends and acquaintances, along with many other less popular "goods". I try to inform people, or at least ...pique their curiosity so they can do the research themselves.
        12-02-2011, 04:16 PM
    Apologies ahead of time if I haven't followed your post correctly DWM,

    By no means do I excuse ignorance, I think a huge part of the problem is that many people will hear the one side of the story "OMG they's killing horses!", react, sign a petition or relay the same biased information to some friends, and move on with their day. I wasn't trying to infer that city populations are stupid as a rule (lord knows I don't want to be painted with that brush), simply that you've got people motivated to learn and make knowledgeable decisions, and you've got "sheep", as Bearkiller put it. The ratio seems to stay the same, but in a denser population, you're just going to have more of both.

    It's hard to explain the sense of detachment you can have from living in the city, I'm sure you understand what I mean; not that choosing a vegan lifestyle or a no kill shelter are in any way wrong, just that it is much easier to live with a sort of tunnel vision, I suppose. In regards to the topic at hand, that could equate to the assumption that what works for you will work for everybody. Take the bitey dog for instance, here we have a plethora of dog trainers, doggy psychiatrists, doggy day cares, personal dog walkers, you name it; with more choices available it appears to be easier to sidestep the task of educating oneself. Once again, I saw plenty of stupidity in all forms in the small Alberta town I spent my childhood in, but the resources here sure make it easier to get by with that stupidity.

    Without going on about it too long, I agree that city populations shouldn't be labelled as stupid, and ignorance is just as rampant as in the less populated areas - but to the outside eye, I can see why it is often viewed that way.

    As a business student, I know it's no coincidence that PETA spends a lot of energy spreading their word around large metropolitan areas, and especially that their "word" often involves condemning practices that many people in cities are more likely to be ignorant about. Simple marketing really, it's safe to assume that most city dwellers do not compete in rodeo events for example, and that there is likely a good chunk who hardly know what a rodeo is. You'll likely have a portion who do not compete in rodeos, but might attend a large one outside of town for fun, and of that portion will be some who are still ignorant enough to buy into the idea that they have been witnessing acts of cruelty. PETA knows this all too well.

    I'm not saying that they are not active outside of cities, of course not, but as a rule, the goal of marketing is to target as many people as possible in an efficient manner - that is to direct it towards those most likely to buy into the idea, and do it cheaply and effectively. Without putting marketing entirely in a negative view, you could consider it "preying on ignorance".

    I'm definitely big on promoting discussion, stirring enough interest to encourage people to educate themselves. I've had great talks with people on this very topic, who aren't into horses but read a biased article and based their opinion on that without knowing both sides. It's an odd phenomenon that many people feel the need to form an instant position on a subject, even if they're not educated on it whatsoever. That in the end is my point (I think) - You've got a city, a dense population full of all sorts of people all ignorant in their own ways, but if you for instance throw a few PETA representatives in front of the art gallery with some pamphlets on the horrors of horse slaughter, you'll get a good portion of people who will take the pamphlet, talk to the reps, and form an opinion on the spot even if they can't tell the difference between a horse and a giraffe - AND, you can assume that you are going to get more people forming these instant opinions in a dense population than say, Baffin Island.

    Ultimately I try to do my part in helping people see both sides of the coin, but I find that often the ones who like to form instant opinions tend to leave it at that, and don't actively seek out more information, often not seeing the other side of the argument until they run into someone who does - just like how this thread got started. Educate thyself and then make a decision, I value that, but unfortunately many do not.
    Bearkiller and FlyGap like this.
        12-02-2011, 04:40 PM
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    Or maybe it depends where you are, and your decision to educate yourself.

    @ Bearkiller, I know your *opinion* on upper education, so I added that qualifier.

    I know you hate me because I don't believe in evolution but you really shouldn't put words into my mouth. I think ALL forms of public education are agenda driven and mostly incompetent. I didn't mean to make you think that I approved of lower education. It goes back to the government debate. They have no business in education. BTW, my wife is a teacher. I know first hand the sorry job that public education does in teaching children. I personally spend alot of money to send my kids to the best school in the area that I live. I also spend alot in taxes to educate other peoples children. It's absurd. As far as the horse slaughter debate goes, I think Gremmy nailed it. Probably better than I could have. I grew up just south of Seattle and all of my family is still there. I know all about the people in that part of the world.
    FlyGap likes this.

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