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Horses Found Dead - Arabian breeding farm

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  • Celesta ranch dead horses
  • Shatomar arabians where are they

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    02-08-2013, 01:02 AM
  #181
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyTrails    

I have noticed unfortunately on a lot of other forum websites going back to 2007 maybe further back 2007 is the furthest back I have gone so far, that there have been many people bad mouthing Shatomar Arabians as being inferior crossbreeds. Which no doubt would have helped contribute to lack of sales of these poor horses. .
I disagree.
Aside from the issue with Sonara, who wasn't a purebred - and, ironically, probably one of the best conformationally sound horses she had - I don't think she got slammed for breeding cross-breds.
Colour sells, she got that. The REASON her horses didn't sell is because she had no idea HOW to breed. No one, regardless of the colour, is going to buy a horse with horribly crooked legs. Not only that, but the photo's she posted constantly showed malnourished, wormy horses. That's why she didn't sell anything.
She had a bad rep, and she took a flak - but it was because of her own poor breeding decisions. And she just kept doing it. That isn't anyone's fault but her own.
     
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    02-08-2013, 10:27 AM
  #182
Trained
Anybody should have better sense than to post pictures of undernourished horses if you want to sell them. If she had limited her website to nice looking animals, people would not have criticized her.

They should not have been undernourished anyway. Then she took that extreme further. If you can't sell last year's foals, why would you breed again anyway?

About color. The best looking color is fat.
     
    02-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #183
Foal
I wish there were a like button for some of these comments. Speaking from what I have read on ABN, people had perceptions of Shatormar based on several criteria. First, she was breeding Arabians, that had they been fat, didn't look like Arabians. Cross breeding was not the issue. Half Arabians are being bred at a much higher rate than purebreds. But her Arabians should have looked like Arabians. Most didn't even look like quality grade horses. Even a thin quality animal will show its quality. Second, was the criticism of the fact her horses were thin, ill kept, and by all the junk laying around, in the photographs, potential buyers would be afraid of buying a horse with hidden injuries. Third and final, the horses were extremely overpriced.
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    02-08-2013, 10:56 AM
  #184
Trained
Nobody is going to pay high prices for poor quality horses.
     
    02-08-2013, 11:00 AM
  #185
Foal
I accidently hit reply before I meant to. I am a premature replyer. Lol To finish what I was saying. There was also the fact that there was that monumental Sonora scandal. It branded Tory a liar, and if not a liar, an idiot at best. Honestly, I don't think she could tell a good horse from a bad one, never did her research to be able to breed discriminately, and combined that with egotism.
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    02-08-2013, 11:03 AM
  #186
Trained
An old veterinarian that I knew was talking about people that would starve their animals. He was referring to cows, but the same principle applies. He said, "Anybody that will cheat their own cow will cheat you." He has a good point. We are responsible for our livestock's well being. If they are lacking, we have cheated them. It is a form of dishonesty. And evil.
     
    02-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #187
Foal
That sounds just like my dad. He was an old rancher. He would be 103 this year if he were alive. He pounded into me that a horseman always takes care of his horse first. If we came in hungry and tired, the horses still were rubbed down and fed before we went in to eat. Ours was a working ranch. We depended on our horses to do a job, and carry us safely each day. We worked hard, and the horses worked hard. His philosophy was that a horse can take good care of itself in its natural environment. But we take them out of that environment, fence them in, and bend them to our will. So they were our responsibility, and God expected us to give them the best care and appreciation. I have carried that through my life. I was blessed to be raised and taught by the best horseman I ever knew. He was hard on me, and I am glad. I wish everyone out here with horses had the training I had. Too many people have horses, and have had no training to have them. If someone isn't willing to educate themselves, and seek out the advice of someone experienced, they should rethink going in. A lot of people bite off more than they can chew.
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    02-08-2013, 11:23 AM
  #188
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayada    
I wish there were a like button for some of these comments. Speaking from what I have read on ABN, people had perceptions of Shatormar based on several criteria. First, she was breeding Arabians, that had they been fat, didn't look like Arabians. Cross breeding was not the issue. Half Arabians are being bred at a much higher rate than purebreds. But her Arabians should have looked like Arabians. Most didn't even look like quality grade horses. Even a thin quality animal will show its quality. Second, was the criticism of the fact her horses were thin, ill kept, and by all the junk laying around, in the photographs, potential buyers would be afraid of buying a horse with hidden injuries. Third and final, the horses were extremely overpriced.
Posted via Mobile Device
Exactly.
When you breed for colour, this is what happens. I love my sabinos but I would never sacrifice the conformation/pedigree to get it.
There's a reason that Elements Arabians (although the business ethics may have been iffy and pedigree mediocre - the horses were well kept and cared for) and Chase N It Farms were selling their sabinos overseas and Shatomar could barely sell any.
And there's no way I would pay $3000 for a filly that had a long back, over at the knee, crooked legs just because she's...splash - let alone even think of paying $35,000. I do think she had a few that, were they painted solid, would not have been painted with the same brush so to speak (Moonlight Money Maker was actually a nice individual himself, in my opinion, but he was bred to horrible mares which killed him as a sire). Triple Libra and Chocolate Snowflake were not bad - of course, neither of these were horses that she produced herself.
I don't think she understood the whole concept of responsible breeding, but go wrapped up in the "selling my painted ponies overseas for big money and get rich" scheme that she failed to see what was sitting right in front of her, and the only ones that suffered were the horses - hopefully. I wonder about her child.
It's all just horribly, unneedlessly, sad.

(PS - There is a like button - it's just to the right... Over here, --> somewhere...LOL)
Elizabeth Bowers likes this.
     
    02-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #189
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSArabians    
=
(PS - There is a like button - it's just to the right... Over here, --> somewhere...LOL)
She's on mobile.. no like button for mobile lol
     
    02-08-2013, 11:35 AM
  #190
Foal
I never saw Moneymaker in person. But I did study a lot of shots of him when I was preparing to draw him. I saw a lot of flaws in him. I wouldn't have bred to him.
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