How to Handle Agressive/Abusive Handlers? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 56 Old 12-03-2011, 08:10 AM
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I imagine, since you are a teenager, that the adult would probably tell you to take a hike, and in all truthfullness, it is her business how she diciplines her horse, not yours. What one person sees as "training and dicipline, another sees as abuse.
I love kids, have my own grandkids. They would no more think of going into a restaurant and running around as flying to the moon. Yet, how many times do you go into a restaruant and see kids running around, banging their forks on the plates, screaming, etc? I would have taken them outside by their ear, trust me. Yet, today it would be considered abuse.
I train dogs. My dogs MIND and MIND now. If I was working with a dog and had to dicipline it, and a teenager came over and started to "help me" I would tell them to take a hike. If I tell them to sit and they ignore me because of something else going on, I will PUT them in a sit and use my voice to do it. I would not kick a dog, because they are not a horse, but would use a jerk on the collar or whatever to make it happen. Yet, other folks will say" isn't that being a little hard on them"..... See, its how you percive it.
She was not beating her horse, she was not torturing her horse, she was diciplining it for moving around. Maybe in this case, she should have taken a breath, but how do you know the horse doesn't strike out or kick or some other thing while being groomed and was trying to avoid a major meltdown?
If this had been a BIG trainer, would you have felt you needed to butt in?
This is not your business, and I am sure the BO will say the same thing. Mind your own business, because you could be bringing alot more to your plate than just ignorning it.
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post #12 of 56 Old 12-04-2011, 10:56 PM
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Talk to your aunt or uncle about this situation. Do they want their child taking lessons at a barn that has possible safety concerns? Let them talk to the owner, manager, trainer, etc. and get some confirmation that this issue will be addressed (the professionals need to take this seriously - this is how barn/trainer bashing starts). This is poor advertisement for a barn in an economy like this. Let the adults handle it, but keep them informed. You have a good heart!
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post #13 of 56 Old 12-04-2011, 11:06 PM
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I find it amazing that with all these posts, everyone has focused on the horse/handler. There were two people standing within harms way because some handler lost their temper (someone dodged that lawsuit bullet). Horse people have an obligation to keep the people around them safe - obviously we don't operate in a bubble.
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post #14 of 56 Old 12-04-2011, 11:16 PM
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I respectfully disagree with wyominggrandma (where is the dislike button - or can we not be honest?). Don't get yourself into the "mind your own business" mantra. People and animals have suffered the world over because someone "minded their own business". You just have to become judicious about when it is appropriate. That will come with time, maturity, and education. Since you are a teen, find an adult you trust (and THEY make good decisions/choices) to help you with these dilemmas. You are on your way!
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post #15 of 56 Old 12-04-2011, 11:25 PM
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I a not in a "mind your own business" mantra. I am an adult who has lived and seen many things and during that time I have learned to be careful where and what I stick my nose into. The problem with "minding someone elses business" is the fact that the OP is a teenager and might be looking at a situation through teen eyes. What my teen grandchildren see when something happens can differ than what my old eyes see through years and years of experience. Why in the world would the OP or anyone stand there within harms way when they see something going on? Most people would move away from where the incedent is occuring, not stand there and watch and be in a position to be hurt.
If you see a car coming at you and you are in the middle of the street, do you stand there and watch it happen or move out of harms way?
The OP did not like the way a horse was being handled. She says it was being abused and what can she do? Maybe the handler of the horse does not feel they were abusing it or even being harsh, maybe she was making the horse behave itself. You don't walk up and pat a horse on the butt when its misbehaving, you let it know that you are standing there and demanding respect, usually by exerting more force than a slap or a "bad boy, stand there". It usually takes a well placed correction to get your point across.
Yep, you can disagree all you want to AnnMarie66. We all have our own opinions. I just tend to stick with giving advice that keeps a teenager out of confrontation situations, once you confront someone and find out the BO or other adults side with the handler instead of the teen, life can get hard real quick.
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post #16 of 56 Old 12-05-2011, 12:04 AM
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,This is not your business, and I am sure the BO will say the same thing. Mind your own business, because you could be bringing alot more to your plate than just ignorning it.[/QUOTE]
Grandma (and I am one too , so I am no kid) again, I respectfully disagree with you. These teenager needs moral support to do something that is right. She does not need to hear "go take a hike". We have fewer and fewer people involved with horses and this is no time to turn off future horse owners because "this is not their business". People leave the business because thay get tired of the arrogance from BO's, trainers, handlers, etc. I choose to support someone in making moral choices. PS I just disagreed with your initial post. The rest of the post should have been directed to the teenager. I apologize.

Last edited by AnneMarie66; 12-05-2011 at 12:06 AM. Reason: added on
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post #17 of 56 Old 12-05-2011, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
i imagine, since you are a teenager, that the adult would probably tell you to take a hike, and in all truthfullness, it is her business how she diciplines her horse, not yours.
This exactly what I was thinking of when she was disciplining her horse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
if I was working with a dog and had to dicipline it, and a teenager came over and started to "help me" I would tell them to take a hike.
I would do the same thing with anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
if this had been a big trainer, would you have felt you needed to butt in?
I have felt the need to butt in before with a big name trainer. She lost her cool when the horse got tense when beging taught to piaffe and started cantering on the spot.

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Originally Posted by annemarie66 View Post
talk to your aunt or uncle about this situation. Do they want their child taking lessons at a barn that has possible safety concerns? Let them talk to the owner, manager, trainer, etc. And get some confirmation that this issue will be addressed (the professionals need to take this seriously - this is how barn/trainer bashing starts). This is poor advertisement for a barn in an economy like this. Let the adults handle it, but keep them informed. You have a good heart!
Last year (I think) I made a thread about how when I went to the barn my cousin was riding at and how appauled I was at whalt was going on. They thought that they would just wait it out and see how it went. The very next day, my cousin went to a show and things went terribly wrong. THEN they moved.


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Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
the problem with "minding someone elses business" is the fact that the op is a teenager and might be looking at a situation through teen eyes.
I have actually thought about the situation alot before coming to the conclusion that she was out of hand. I've seen people kick their horses before to get them to listen. Although I don't agree with it, I understand that horses are pretty tough. Now, the thing that really bothered me was that the horse did one minor thing and she went after him like he just bit someone's arm off. Jabbing a horse with clippers is out of line in almost everyone that I know's book.

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Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
why in the world would the op or anyone stand there within harms way when they see something going on?
I made sure that we moved out of harms way. We were far enough that it was safe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
the op did not like the way a horse was being handled. She says it was being abused and what can she do? Maybe the handler of the horse does not feel they were abusing it or even being harsh, maybe she was making the horse behave itself. You don't walk up and pat a horse on the butt when its misbehaving, you let it know that you are standing there and demanding respect, usually by exerting more force than a slap or a "bad boy, stand there". It usually takes a well placed correction to get your point across.
Once again, the behaviour that she was "correcting" was the horse taking a step back and unplugging the clippers because the cord was in between his hind legs.

"You know, for as long as I can remember, I've had memories." ~Colin Mochrie
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post #18 of 56 Old 12-05-2011, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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How about this. What are some suggestions for adults standing up to agressive handlers. I can always learn something for the future.
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"You know, for as long as I can remember, I've had memories." ~Colin Mochrie
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post #19 of 56 Old 12-05-2011, 12:17 AM
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The handler then hit him in the flank area. Horse started panicking more so she untied him. ............ So she kicks him in the stomach HARD about four times. The horse flips his head up (he's pretty tall probably around 17hh) and smacks it on the heater (which was off) and starts flipping his head and prancing around. So, she jabs him twice with the clippers. She smacks him a few more times and then ties him up again.
......... I understand that horses need to be punished sometimes but jabbing your horse with clippers and kicking him in the stomach? That's too far.
As a barn owner, I'd take very seriously what you said about the situation because teenager or no, you saw what you saw. I'd probably question you real thoroughly about the incident and ask a bunch of questions to make sure either you didn't know this person or if you knew her, you didn't have an axe to grind in regard to your relationship with her. Once I satisfied myself that you were in fact, just telling the bare unvarnished truth, I'd ask the boarder to come have a chat with me.

My barn rules are very explicit about the kind of behaviour I'll tolerate and what I won't and belly kicking just happens to be on top of the list of "Won't Tolerates". That and slapping a horse around the face and earing them down are 3 of my major pet peeves and the first 3 items on my, "Don't Let Me Catch You Doing This" list.

If she was an adult as you estimate, I'd have given her a verbal warning to stop that behaviour immediately and followed up with a written note reminding her of our discussion and enclosing a copy of the barn rules to remind her what she signed and agreed to when she came to board here. If it happened again.....OUT. She'd be told she'd have to move.

So, I'm all about, don't YOU confront the out of control person, but you come to me, the barn owner and tell me what's going on and let ME confront the out of control person. That's part of my responsibility as a barn owner.

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post #20 of 56 Old 12-05-2011, 12:34 AM
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Dreamcatcher, why don't you like belly kicking? Just curious as I've seen it done quite a lot and haven't heard anything negative about it. Also, what do you mean by "earing them down?"
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