How to Handle Agressive/Abusive Handlers? - Page 3
   

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How to Handle Agressive/Abusive Handlers?

This is a discussion on How to Handle Agressive/Abusive Handlers? within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • Do you punish your horse?horse foroum
  • Clipping horsr that kicks when clipping belly

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    12-05-2011, 12:35 AM
  #21
Foal
Arksly, when you are an adult, you will have more experience ( and education:)) to deal with these situations. Go above that person's head (she sounds hostile) and present it to the person in charge, professionally and logically. Be polite yet firm and demand the same from them. Keep yourself above the "fray" and take the higher road at all times. People who CAN keep their cool and can back their information will get out ahead. You are young and there will plenty of horse experiences from which to learn from. ALWAYS learn something, even if it's a nasty situation like this.
     
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    12-05-2011, 12:57 AM
  #22
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Countrylady1071    
Dreamcatcher, why don't you like belly kicking? Just curious as I've seen it done quite a lot and haven't heard anything negative about it. Also, what do you mean by "earing them down?"
Posted via Mobile Device
I find belly kicking to be extremely dysfunctional. I've never seen anyone do it who hasn't totally lost control of the situation and so I just flat do not allow it on my place. It's generally accompanied by a lot of swearing, flailing arms and whips and lead lines and other useless behaviour and I find it really offensive.

Earing down = grabbing a horse by the ear and either twisting or chewing or both, said to be like twitching or lip chaining, however again, usually done by people completely not in control of a situation and leaves the horse very ear shy.

Please don't think I'm against disciplining a horse, I just don't believe in doing so when you've totally lost control over yourself, never mind the horse. Kind of like beating a 2 year old child....and just about as effective.
     
    12-05-2011, 01:14 AM
  #23
Foal
I do agree with you about the belly kicking, I completely see your point when you put it that way. When I see my boss do it, he is nearly always just totally beyond mad at that point and I don't feel he's getting anything accomplished except venting his anger. I guess the horse usually does stop whatever it was doing wrong (at least for a short amount of time) cause it's kind of "stunned."
About the ear thing (never heard that term you used but I know what you mean now) they regularly do it at my barn while clipping, and I have to say, we only have two horses that I can think of off the top of my head that are ear shy. The rest very willingly let you touch/grab their ear.
I do wish they would just put more time into training them to accept clipping without twitching though. My two personal horses are great to clip, and if either of them weren't so easy, I would just put in more training/time until they WERE good, I wouldn't twitch them. I don't know how difficult it would be to train the average horse to accept clipping of the ears,etc without being twitched though so maybe I'm being ignorant.
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    12-05-2011, 12:11 PM
  #24
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
I find belly kicking to be extremely dysfunctional. I've never seen anyone do it who hasn't totally lost control of the situation and so I just flat do not allow it on my place. It's generally accompanied by a lot of swearing, flailing arms and whips and lead lines and other useless behaviour and I find it really offensive.
Maybe at your place. Anyone who knows horses and handles them enough realizes that a boot to the belly is an attention getter and nothing more. Just how do you suggest a 110 pound person respond to an 1100 pound horse attempting to kick at a horse walking by? Say "no no".

I find a boot to the belly (if I am on the ground) and a QUIT is very effective. Had the second horse been loose instead of being led by a person, they would of turned to each other and booted each other.
     
    12-05-2011, 12:30 PM
  #25
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls    
Maybe at your place. Anyone who knows horses and handles them enough realizes that a boot to the belly is an attention getter and nothing more. Just how do you suggest a 110 pound person respond to an 1100 pound horse attempting to kick at a horse walking by? Say "no no".

I find a boot to the belly (if I am on the ground) and a QUIT is very effective. Had the second horse been loose instead of being led by a person, they would of turned to each other and booted each other.
Well, then it's a good thing you aren't a boarder here because you wouldn't stay here. I choose to not allow that kind of thing here, and I enforce it.

I find ground manners training to be effective and if a horse has an issue like wanting to kick at another horse, a few minutes ground work can generally fix the problem.

We are very low key here, have very few problems with our horses and no one here chews on ears, kicks bellies, screams or otherwise loses it with the horses. We do ask each other for help when things aren't going well and frequently, a different hand and different person handling the horse makes the issue just disappear. We've learned that our frustration communicates to the horses and a new person who isn't frustrated can frequently accomplish what the original person could not.

We're not afraid to use a crop or whip when needed, but again, very minimal physical agression is usually needed.

I have a tip for you though, if you think YOU a 110 lb human are going to out muscle or out physical an 1100 lb horse, I suggest you check your meds 'cos you're delusional. LOL! That's meant as a joke, not as a slam, btw.
Beauseant likes this.
     
    12-05-2011, 12:31 PM
  #26
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
It's ridiculous for the handler to punish the horse for stepping and pulling the plug out, let alone the other things she was hitting on him for. She'll reap what she's sown, one of these days.
Is it OK with you that a handler punish their horse for not standing still when they have been told to.

What if the horse has been told to stand still while something is going on and the horse moving (after being told to stand still) ends up with the vet or farrier getting injured?

Horse was told to stand still. Stepping on the cord and pulling it out of the wall is just the thing that happened when the horse did not stand still. I am guessing not what the horse was in trouble for as much as the not standing still.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma    
She was not beating her horse, she was not torturing her horse, she was diciplining it for moving around. Maybe in this case, she should have taken a breath, but how do you know the horse doesn't strike out or kick or some other thing while being groomed and was trying to avoid a major meltdown?
Yes! Totally agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksly    
Now, the thing that really bothered me was that the horse did one minor thing and she went after him like he just bit someone's arm off.
Not standing when told to stand is not really one minor thing.
And since you do not know the horse or its history it is pretty impossible for you to judge if this was a nothing or a something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksly    
Once again, the behaviour that she was "correcting" was the horse taking a step back and unplugging the clippers because the cord was in between his hind legs.
Read above.... the issue was most likely not standing still.....
     
    12-05-2011, 12:38 PM
  #27
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Countrylady1071    
I would just put in more training/time until they WERE good, I wouldn't twitch them. I don't know how difficult it would be to train the average horse to accept clipping of the ears,etc without being twitched though so maybe I'm being ignorant.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have no problem with using a proper twitch or lip chain to get a horse to be still while I'm clipping inside their ears. I also use cotton or horse ear plugs to deaden the sound and to catch the hair and keep it from falling inside the ear. I use only enough pressure on the lip chain (I prefer that to twitching) to get them to stand and usually after a few sessions, the chain is run through and laying on their gums but no pressure is on it, it just reminds them to stand still by being there. Eventually they don't even need that. I only have 2 horses out of 26 here that still need to have restraint while being clipped on their ears.

When I talk about 'earing down' a horse, I'm not talking about how a lot of barns do it to hold them for ear clipping. They just sort of hold the ear with a little twist, kind of a "You better be good or...." kind of reminder while they clip the other ear. I'm talking about a grown man hanging onto that ear and twisting til you think it's going to come off and if the horse moves, sticking the tip in his mouth and chewing on it. Instead of training, let's just terrorize the horse into standing still. That's 'earing down' and can bring a horse down to its knees, literally.
     
    12-05-2011, 12:53 PM
  #28
Foal
I have never heard of someone chewing on a horses ear! But when we do the ear twitch, it's not just a gentle twist, they tell you to twist until you feel like the ear will come off. They definitely want it to hurt so the horse is completely focused on the ear.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    12-05-2011, 03:02 PM
  #29
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
Well, then it's a good thing you aren't a boarder here because you wouldn't stay here. I choose to not allow that kind of thing here, and I enforce it.

I find ground manners training to be effective and if a horse has an issue like wanting to kick at another horse, a few minutes ground work can generally fix the problem.

We are very low key here, have very few problems with our horses and no one here chews on ears, kicks bellies, screams or otherwise loses it with the horses. We do ask each other for help when things aren't going well and frequently, a different hand and different person handling the horse makes the issue just disappear. We've learned that our frustration communicates to the horses and a new person who isn't frustrated can frequently accomplish what the original person could not.

We're not afraid to use a crop or whip when needed, but again, very minimal physical agression is usually needed.

I have a tip for you though, if you think YOU a 110 lb human are going to out muscle or out physical an 1100 lb horse, I suggest you check your meds 'cos you're delusional. LOL! That's meant as a joke, not as a slam, btw.
Sounds like a slam. I am ever so glad I am NOT at your facility. We do NOT use whips at my barn.

BOOOO.
     
    12-05-2011, 03:25 PM
  #30
Foal
When we first got our horse, we had a friend who is a "horse trainer" try to train Cinny "her way" by hitting and whipping. Cinny finally got fed up with her and charged her and ran her out of the barn! Cinny has no issues with anyone but when he sees this lady, the ears pin back and the snorting begins! So I think our horse can take care of himself! Lol
     

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