My essay on Horse Slaughter - Page 6
 
 

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My essay on Horse Slaughter

This is a discussion on My essay on Horse Slaughter within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • Price of horse meat 2012
  • Current horse slaughter per pound

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    03-11-2012, 09:48 PM
  #51
Yearling
Time for another glass of wine.....ah heck, I'm not re corking the bottle
     
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    03-11-2012, 09:51 PM
  #52
Super Moderator
The idea was to discourage the casual thinking "well, it doesnt' matter if I over breed cause I can get rid of it later". Make breeders a bit less likely to overbreed.

IT's jsut an idea, and since I do not breed, I confess it's just a theoretical idea.

The point is to make slaughter less likely to happen, but keep it safe , humane and legal. ANd work toward a world where the only horses slaughtered are the ones that really aren't rehomable. Dream? Maybe . . .
     
    03-11-2012, 11:17 PM
  #53
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
Before the prices crashed and well before the economy went in the hole I would buy two or three horses at a time from the meat auction and turn them over in a couple of months. The horses gained value and were given a good home and I made a few bucks. Who's buying those horses now? There were several other guys doing the same thing but they don't do it anymore either for the same reason.
We did too, only the kill buyer was the one who contacted us - we never attended any of the auctions. He, like most meat buyers, was a horseman. He would separate the ones he thought we might be interested in from the kill pen and give us a call. We'd check them out, handle them, see what they knew/didn't know, etc. and we never paid more for the horses we chose than the original bill of sale (reimbursing him his out of pocket).
     
    03-11-2012, 11:50 PM
  #54
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma    
HSUS is totally tied in with PETA... They do not have ONE shelter in the US, nor do they support any type of humane societies or rescues. ALL their money they get from donations work against owning animals and with PETA.. Also their salaries.
Their agenda is just whats PETA's is, nobody anywhere owning animals of any kind for any reason.
It is indeed ironic that people here are giving the OP crap about sourcing facts. This post is pure fabricated delusion, and yet I don't see those same people asking for sources here, hmmmm....

HSUS runs THE LARGEST EQUINE SANCTUARY IN THE UNITED STATES. Google Cleveland Armory Black Beauty Ranch. They also run the Doris Day Equine Rescue and the Duchess Equine Sanctuary, and two wildlife sanctuaries. 70% of the money they get goes to animal programs and their salaries are less than other similar animal welfare groups and their CEO makes a measly 25% of what the Farm Bureau CEO makes.

Who’s Really Over-Compensating? HumaneWatch Info
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    03-11-2012, 11:58 PM
  #55
Foal
Lady Trails You are wrong when you say HSUS does not fund rescue. They run two large horse rescues.
JumpingPaints likes this.
     
    03-12-2012, 12:08 AM
  #56
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
I am having trouble with the logic behind claiming horse slaughter encourages irresponsible lottery style breeding.

What is the current price per pound for horse meat? What does 1000# 3 year old fetch on the hoof at a slaugher house? $300.? $500.? I can't think of how anyone could possibly make money breeding horses for slaughter, or breed indiscriminately and have it make sense by sending the culls to slaughter.

My understanding of one of effects of closing US slaughterhouses was that it greatly increased transportation costs of getting the horses to market. So of that $300 - $500. On the hoof price (and that's my guess, I have no idea what the price actually is) more is eaten up in transportation and less is profit to the seller. I thought that was why horses are being bought for $25 - $100 to fill trailers heading for Mexico or Canada.
Two points here - I didn't say you can make money breeding horses for slaughter. Breeders (who investigations have shown are the primary sources for slaughter horses), are using slaughter as a way to cut the losses on culls. Today many of them are using it to disperse herds, since they didn't curtail their breeding as the market was drying up.

Secondly, transport time hasn't changed a whole lot. The slaughter market can only viably support a handful of plants in North America. Hence why we only had 3 plants in the US; two in TX and one in IL. Horses then had long trips then, like they have long trips now. And tens of thousands of US horses went to MEX and CAN even when the US plants were open.

What did change after the US plants closed was the worst economic downturn since the great depression. This led to crashed demand for horses and increased supply. Since price is a reflection of supply and demand (economics 101), prices crashed. Same way demand and prices for houses and all non-essential goods were similarly decimated. It's basic economics.
     
    03-12-2012, 12:55 AM
  #57
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horse Poor    
We did too, only the kill buyer was the one who contacted us - we never attended any of the auctions. He, like most meat buyers, was a horseman. He would separate the ones he thought we might be interested in from the kill pen and give us a call. We'd check them out, handle them, see what they knew/didn't know, etc. and we never paid more for the horses we chose than the original bill of sale (reimbursing him his out of pocket).

Good man.
     
    03-12-2012, 07:23 AM
  #58
Banned
Jumping Paints,

I'm having trouble following your your reasoning. First you said

[quote] And selling horses to slaughter - which has NEVER ceased to be an option for horse owners - only provides an incentive for further lottery-style breeding. Take away the cull option and the market will force people to breed responsibly [quote]

Quote:
Today many of them are using it to disperse herds, since they didn't curtail their breeding as the market was drying up.
Which seems to say that breeders didn't respond to market pressure previously, but that they will now? Or they will if they plants in Canada and Mexico close as well?

I also found this statement confusing -

[quote] Breeders (who investigations have shown are the primary sources for slaughter horses) [quote] Do you mean horses sent *directly* from the breeder's farm to slaughter? Otherwise that statement doesn't have a lot of meaning, because the only two sources of horses would be breeders and feral horses. Whose investigation?

I agree that overbreeding is a big part of the current problem, and that racing and certain types of show breeding are the worse offenders, becuase it is acceptable to put 10 foals on the ground to get one winner, and everyone focuses on the winner, not the the 9 that will have to find other homes and careers.

But I don't agree with your hypothesis about the role the American slaughter facilities, or slaughter in general, plays in the equation of the current glut of horses at the bottom or the market or the market itself.
kevinshorses likes this.
     
    03-12-2012, 10:27 AM
  #59
Foal
[quote=maura;1403282]

[quote] Breeders (who investigations have shown are the primary sources for slaughter horses)
Quote:
Do you mean horses sent *directly* from the breeder's farm to slaughter? Otherwise that statement doesn't have a lot of meaning, because the only two sources of horses would be breeders and feral horses. Whose investigation?

I agree that overbreeding is a big part of the current problem, and that racing and certain types of show breeding are the worse offenders, becuase it is acceptable to put 10 foals on the ground to get one winner, and everyone focuses on the winner, not the the 9 that will have to find other homes and careers.

But I don't agree with your hypothesis about the role the American slaughter facilities, or slaughter in general, plays in the equation of the current glut of horses at the bottom or the market or the market itself.
FWIW, I'm having an equally difficult time understanding your logic also. I'm applying proven (basic) economic principles here, not some 'hypothesis.' What IS a hypothesis that defies proven economic theory, is that moving the slaughter plants killed the horse market. The demand for US horses for slaughter remained constant. As a rule, you can't attribute something that remained constant as the agent of a changed result. And denial of a massive economic downturn and its devastating effects on the horse market doesn't help slaughter pushers' credibility either.

It took many breeders several years of poor demand, caused by the economic downturn, to scale back breeding sufficiently, and they're breeding too many horses for the market to sustain. Decreases in AQHA new foal regs (QH breeders being the worst offenders in breeding horses where there's no demand) are running about -12% each year from the previous year. Can you imagine if home builders only cut back 10% each year?? It doesn't help that AQHA encourages overbreeding with their policies and incentives, but many breeders continued thinking they could cut their losses using the meat option, not understanding that with the increased supply of and reduced demand for horses, that meat prices would fall also.

And this isn't a hypothesis. I heard many breeders admit to using slaughter for culling on equine forums.

Animals Angels went to auctions around the country and observed the horses being brought to auction and who the owners were. They saw lots of loads dumping off 10 to 15 young horses, almost always QHs and paints. And lots of TB trainers bringing their horses and often making deals with KBs right in the parking lot (and not running them thru the auction). Also, lots of nice trailers and rigs dumping off these horses.
     
    03-12-2012, 11:28 AM
  #60
Weanling
So I did not read through the whole essay there a some spelling and grammar errors that need to be fixed.

One thing that jumped out at me is : "Unlike the old, crippled, sick and used up dairy cow you eat in your hamburger, the majority of horses slaughtered are rejects from breeding farms."

I am pretty sure that a huge majority of beef is young, healthy animals. I know the ones we sent to slaughter, were about 40, 9 month old healthy animals, that went to a feedlot to be fattened up.

Just my 2cents
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