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Need Advice: Horse Sale Gone Wrong!

This is a discussion on Need Advice: Horse Sale Gone Wrong! within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • Will coggins papers stand up as proof of ownership
  • "my friend offered to sell me her two horses a few months back"

 
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    07-07-2010, 11:56 AM
  #11
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence    
My friend offered to sell me her two horses a few months back. I paid off the gelding. I was supposed to enter a contract to pay for the mare. My friend delivered the mare and gelding last Saturday.
I can't get past this paragraph.

You purchased two horses - sight unseen? From a friend?

And you thought this would go well?
     
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    07-07-2010, 02:46 PM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence    

I sent the letter yesterday.
Please tell me you sent it certified and regular both. I got screwed awhile back by not sending something certified. I really wish you the best as she seems totally off her rocker!
     
    07-07-2010, 03:19 PM
  #13
Foal
Do you really want to pay for a horse (the mare) you don't want?
Do you really want to pay for two horses (an attacker) you don't want?
     
    07-07-2010, 10:37 PM
  #14
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauren Woodard    
Do you really want to pay for a horse (the mare) you don't want?
Do you really want to pay for two horses (an attacker) you don't want?
It sounds like the OP would like to work with the gelding to get him up to par and wants the mare to end up in a better situation but is not as interested in keeping her long term. (Am I right?) If things work out with the abandonment, she may get the mare and the trailer for free anyhow.

I think you're doing as much as can be done. I certainly hope that matters work out well for you.
     
    07-12-2010, 11:14 AM
  #15
Foal
Well folks the dice is this:

1.) After a certain amount of time the abandonment becomes property owned free and clear provided she sends them written notice via registered (certified return/receipt) mail.

2.) I would absolute in great painstakingly clear detail get receipts of your money (pay pal transactions, canceled checks etc) and any and all e-mails or correspondences that show the agreed sum for the gelding and the mare. At the same time I would photograph the horses condition, feet, body structure, any sores etc. Call out a vet and a farrier and a dentist and have them all A.) treat the horses and B.) write letters attesting to their condition and level of disarray.

You also want to contact your local ASPCA to inform them that someone abandoned a horse on your property and that you are caring for the horse as it was abandoned in poor condition and suffering lameness, but as this may go to court you'd like them to document the situation.

Save ALL e-mails this woman sends you. DO NOT ANSWER ANY OF THEM. just keep them and print them and put them all in one big folder set aside with receipts of anything that comes out of YOUR pocket for these horses. Especially that mare.

Other then that? Hold tight, sit pretty, realize that friends aren't friends when money is concerned, and wait. Make sure you guard those horses though. They may try to make a sneak attack but I think it's after 10 days that they're yours

ALSO! Registration papers mean NOTHING as far as ownership. Have a new coggins pulled on the gelding IMMEDIATELY IN YOUR NAME!
     
    07-12-2010, 11:22 AM
  #16
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinRoses    
Registration papers mean NOTHING as far as ownership.
Incorrect. The registry goes by who is listed as the owner of the animal. In order for the animal to be registered to the new owner, the previous owner has to sign the transfer line. Otherwise, the animal will stay registered to the previous owner, and the new owner may not attend breed shows with the animal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinRoses    
Have a new coggins pulled on the gelding IMMEDIATELY IN YOUR NAME!
Coggins do not denote ownership. The merely indicate who authorized the coggins pulled. A coggins cannot be used as a legal document proving ownership.

A signed contract or bill of sale denotes ownership, and will trump registration papers. No contract or bill of sale, and the registration is considered to be the fallback document proving ownership.

You can claim abandonment if the animal has been left in your care for a certain amount of time, but you'll need written, verifiable proof. Such as receipts for vet care, feed, farrier, etc.

If all those are in order, you can get a legal ruling in your favor and obtain a hardship registration transfer.
     
    07-12-2010, 12:08 PM
  #17
Foal
O MY GOOSH!!!! She is like insane! No offense!!:)
     
    07-12-2010, 06:41 PM
  #18
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
Incorrect. The registry goes by who is listed as the owner of the animal. In order for the animal to be registered to the new owner, the previous owner has to sign the transfer line. Otherwise, the animal will stay registered to the previous owner, and the new owner may not attend breed shows with the animal. Having gone through a legal situation where a sale barn stole my consigned Hanoverian filly I can assure you that the law will not consider registration papers as proof of ownership because all too often horses are sold without registration papers and/or registration papers are with held. Otherwise someone from years ago who sold the horse at a sale and suddenly seeing the horse competing at a local non-breed show and doing well could suddenly cry theft and ownership.



Coggins do not denote ownership. The merely indicate who authorized the coggins pulled. A coggins cannot be used as a legal document proving ownership. Incorrect. According to my local PD, Equine Attorney, and the State of Florida at the very least -- Coggins are proof of CURRENT ownership and as breed registration papers only apply to registered horse as opposed to grade, the Coggins test is as close to registering a horse with the state as possible as they are an annually updated piece of information. In several ownership disputes the state ruled in favor of people holding the most current coggins and other veterinary records. It's unfair but without tons of professional witnesses to prove otherwise? You're up a creek in the courts.

A signed contract or bill of sale denotes ownership, and will trump registration papers. No contract or bill of sale, and the registration is considered to be the fallback document proving ownership. A signed bill of sale that is witnessed and notarized is the trump card. But registration papers really aren't even worth the paper they're printed on since, as stated, a lot of people with hold them or never sign them over or never re-register the animal purchased unless they show at breed shows or plan on breeding. I'm 100% sure of this due to the Hanoverian case.

You can claim abandonment if the animal has been left in your care for a certain amount of time, but you'll need written, verifiable proof. Such as receipts for vet care, feed, farrier, etc. THIS is correct. You will need proof. Photos. Police reports etc.

If all those are in order, you can get a legal ruling in your favor and obtain a hardship registration transfer. Only if you have the animal's registration name, number, and sire/dam information in many cases.
The problem is in the case of grade horses which is why that Coggins test is a VITAL piece of information. Because my Hanoverian filly was not registered/stud book approved it took 8 months to get her back and sadly the court ruling for custody came two days AFTER she passed away due a twisted gut only because the party then tried to tack on vet bills etc associated with the euthanasia. The result was a massive court suit against the barn for grand larceny theft and destruction of property since they killed the animal without my approval etc. I hope this goes much better for you.
     
    07-13-2010, 12:38 AM
  #19
Started
Coggins paperwork can be signed by anyone, does not have to be the owner of the horse. Therefore, it is not a legal document showing ownership, only the horses information and that someone "authorized" to sign did so. Anyone could take a horse in and get a coggins test and sign the paperwork.
Grade or not, it is simply a document showing the horse passes a blood test, not legal ownership. A brand inspection will show legal ownership, but seems some states don't do brand inspections.
     

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