Population Reduction - Page 2
 
 

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Population Reduction

This is a discussion on Population Reduction within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category

     
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        02-12-2008, 09:28 PM
      #11
    Banned
    I'm just going to reply to the most recent post, because honestly I'm not in the mood to tackle the rest.

    "Breedable/Good Enough/Perfect:"

    A horse that has good conformation (actually, great conformation), a good mind, no genetic diseases that it could pass on to its offspring, is in healthy shape and physically able to reproduce without straining itself, has something desirable to add to the market, does not add to a niche that is already overpopulated, is owned by people who are financially able and educated enough to support it and its offspring, is registered, has good bloodlines, has proven itself in the show ring, has in fact won awards in said show ring (and not just at the 4H level....we're talking the real deal), etc.

    Yes, quality horses are slightly overpopulated. Read the certain niches being filled and surplus horses--mainly in the halter industry and TB racing. But for the most part (say, 75%), it's junk horses and mediocre horses that are filling up kill pens in Mexico.

    Backyard breeders need to stop breeding. Period. Big production operations need to cut back their foal crop drastically.

    And there's no excuse to not geld colts. If they aren't high quality animals being used for breeding, they need to be cut, because eventually, they'll jump the neighbor's fence and breed his mini mare. Or hurt themselves trying. Not to mention, stallions are dangerous and unhappy horses. Nature tells them that they need to reproduce--they've got that constant internal drive. But if they act even remotely like a boy, they get in trouble. How is that fair? They're constantly nervous and on edge....because that's how they're programmed. They have trouble keeping weight on. Geld them, and they calm down. They're healthier, happier, and saner.
         
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        02-12-2008, 09:41 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    Im not angry at anyone o.o Im just being point blank about what I think.
         
        02-13-2008, 08:36 AM
      #13
    Started
    The difference between backyard breeders and Top-Quality breeders, is that the top breeders, breed for a reason, and when those top horses are at the top, its pretty slim to none a 500,000 dollar horse is going to slaughter. Now when you don't even mean to breed a horse. Well then that horse might as well have slaughter written on its forehead. I realized that for those of us that don't backyard breed, or send horses to slaughter, shouldn't bother with slaughter. We won't end it nor should we. So why not just let the people that basically breed specifically for slaughter breed for those reasons, considering they are unstoppable, and invincible when it comes to slaughter horse breeding.
         
        02-13-2008, 08:47 PM
      #14
    Deb
    Foal
    Quoted: (The difference between backyard breeders and Top-Quality breeders, is that the top breeders, breed for a reason, and when those top horses are at the top, its pretty slim to none a 500,000 dollar horse is going to slaughter. Now when you don't even mean to breed a horse. Well then that horse might as well have slaughter written on its forehead. I realized that for those of us that don't backyard breed, or send horses to slaughter, shouldn't bother with slaughter. We won't end it nor should we. So why not just let the people that basically breed specifically for slaughter breed for those reasons, considering they are unstoppable, and invincible when it comes to slaughter horse breeding.)


    Backyard breeders breed for a reason too, babies are cute, I want a baby from my horse, my horse has such a great personality....
    But are those really good reasons to add one more horse to the world which often treats them so unkindly.

    Would you then use the same rational when it comes to the overpopulation of dogs or cats? After all, puppy mills are unstoppable, and we wouldn't do it, but they are invincible so what the heck. Maybe we shouldn't even try to stop them for those reasons. When something is horrible, civilized people have an obligation to say something, because to say nothing is to give approval. Even the law says that if you know of a crime being committed and do nothing to prevent it, you are as guilty as the perpetrator.
         
        02-13-2008, 08:58 PM
      #15
    Deb
    Foal
    I have another one for you. Did you know that the Chinese breed a little animal called a racoon dog for fur. They stun it by beating it over the head, then skin it alive. Should we just allow it to continue, or should we vote with our wallets and not buy anything with fur that comes from China. Because they breed for a purpose, because they are unstoppable, because they are invincible....

    If only people realized that all animals, including horses have feelings, and suffer fear, and sadness, and experience joy, and if the level of a beings intelligence wasn't a determining factor for whether or not they have worth, then maybe the whole animal slaughter issue would have a chance of becoming a thing of the long ago, primitive past.

    By the way, if you don't believe me about the racoon dog thing, do a search on Chinese fur farms. I will warn you though, the video you will find is horrifying and is not for the sensitive.
         
        02-13-2008, 11:02 PM
      #16
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deb
    Quoted: (The difference between backyard breeders and Top-Quality breeders, is that the top breeders, breed for a reason, and when those top horses are at the top, its pretty slim to none a 500,000 dollar horse is going to slaughter. Now when you don't even mean to breed a horse. Well then that horse might as well have slaughter written on its forehead. I realized that for those of us that don't backyard breed, or send horses to slaughter, shouldn't bother with slaughter. We won't end it nor should we. So why not just let the people that basically breed specifically for slaughter breed for those reasons, considering they are unstoppable, and invincible when it comes to slaughter horse breeding.)


    Backyard breeders breed for a reason too, babies are cute, I want a baby from my horse, my horse has such a great personality....
    But are those really good reasons to add one more horse to the world which often treats them so unkindly.

    Would you then use the same rational when it comes to the overpopulation of dogs or cats? After all, puppy mills are unstoppable, and we wouldn't do it, but they are invincible so what the heck. Maybe we shouldn't even try to stop them for those reasons. When something is horrible, civilized people have an obligation to say something, because to say nothing is to give approval. Even the law says that if you know of a crime being committed and do nothing to prevent it, you are as guilty as the perpetrator.


    People who breed for a reason aren't back yard breeders. Some one who breeds deliberately to see how cute the baby will be and then get rid of it, well that's a little different. I'm saying people who have horses just to be high and mighty enough to say they have a horse and send them all in the pasture because they don't care a pig and a goose about them or what comes from them, well they are the unstoppable ones. Because all those unwanted babies, starving, highly diseased, abused, yadda yadda, horses are ones who go to slaughter. They are the ones no one wants to waste money on. Why stop that? You alone can't stop horses from breeding, its a natural thing when they are put in a pasture together. Don't count on slaughter getting taken away or stopped. It's a necessary thing, horses are over-populated, especially the ones no one wants. What are we supposed to do with the ones not wanted? Let them starve, pass on diseases? I think not. Shame on anyone who believes that to be right. Shame on the people who take on horses when they know they will never ever have the chances to afford it and support it but still breed it thus sending the mare and the baby to slaughter. Shame on them. You can't stop it though. And with the Chinese breeding things specifically for fur, well its going to happen. Now what about those people that don't give a dog and a cat about what happened to those dogs as long as they're getting top quality fur? You cannot stop it nor should we try because the population of certain things, such as horses and deer are over populated. Its just like deer, people hunt them too? Now why doesn't anyone make a big deal about hunting? People have veal. You know those baby cows in dog houses. They're bred specifically for a reason and there is no stopping that. And why should we?
         
        02-14-2008, 06:54 AM
      #17
    Deb
    Foal
    I gotta admit that I am stymied by your fatalistic attitude. You seem to think that there is no point in trying to stop horrible things. If everyone in the world had that attitude, then no one would have tried to stop Hitler from killing Jews and anyone else who didn't fit his idea of the perfect race. No one would try to stop pedophiles, because that is just what they do and why try to stop it. No one would try to stop puppy mills so why waste the money on the SPCA. People who abuse their horses will never stop even if you take the horse away, they'll just get another one later and abuse it, so why try to help the one that is there in front of you. I am saddened quite frankly because I think that there are lots of people out there who are like you seem to be, you just don't care.

    We are judged by how we treat the weakest among us, how we treat the voiceless, and if we don't care, what does that say about us? If we don't feel anguish for the pain of others, what does that say about us? What does it take to make the uncaring, feel again?
         
        02-14-2008, 07:22 AM
      #18
    Deb
    Foal
    The reason that is proposed here that slaughter be allowed to go on is that it is the only way to prevent horse neglect. Where do you think race horses go when they are not fast enough? Some may get sold and rehabbed for pleasure use, but apparently 15% of the animals that show up on the kill floor are 2-3 year old Thoroughbreds. When they do round ups of wild horses, some get adopted, but where do you think the rest go?

    (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...649C8B63&fta=y)

    What do you think happens to all the broodmares that these people "who breed for a reason" do when the mares are no longer productive? I understand your concerns about neglected horses. But maybe instead of killing the horses, we as a people, should focus on eliminating the overproduction of animals in general, whether they be dogs, cats, horses, pet birds, etc.

    If the racing industry folds tomorrow, that will be how many fewer horses being produced to find that one champion. If every person who breeds (including the ones on the breeding threads on this forum) for selfish reasons, yes I did use the "S" word, didn't, how many fewer horses would be hauled away to slaughter. If every woman going through menopause were to accept natures changes in her body, instead of relying on horse pee to avoid perspiring, how many fewer horses would be loaded onto trucks for the final ride. Say nothing, and the pain continues.
         
        02-14-2008, 09:40 AM
      #19
    Green Broke
    Exaclty Deb. What do you think happenes to those mares?

    I know Harlee extremely well. I can tell you this, she does care, she cares enough to realize that slaughter and such is needed in this world. She cares enough to understand that no matter how many people complain and throw a fit about the poor horses dieing everyday isn't going to do anything. Its going to continue. Harlee does care, more then you know.

    So back to those mares. If there is no slaughter what is going to happen to them. Slaughter was their escape from the pain of starving to death in a pasture. So your saying we should let that happen? What about all the PMU mares that get sent to slaughter? They will be thrown out to pasture to die. The problem is that people don't care I agree with you on that. But there are more people in this world that don't care, more then do. Its a money making business. That's all there is too it. There is way too much money involved for anything to be done. Politics. If you understand the politics of it all, it would make more sense. Its like the tobacco companies. Many people are trying to stop that, but again too much money involved. Even if they did stop the sales of tobacco and made it illegal a huge black market would come about. So really its a vicious circle. Mindless people breed mindless horses then come up with mindless crap. The people don't care anymore so they send them to slaughter. To me, slaughter is an escape from dieing slowly in a pasture.

    If you forget about one thing, and focus on another, the thing you forgot about will come up and bite you in the butt. If we stop slaughter and focus on overpopulation. You will see an increase in neglected horses and such, more horses dying on the sides of the roads. Its a horrible thing but its true. Overpopulation is a problem yes, but not the only problem.

    You cannot compare slaughter to Hitler. There is just no comparison. Hitler destoryed the Jews for power and gain. Yes thousands of horses a killed a day, but its legal and for a reason, meat. Also its an escape from abuse and neglect. Yes maybe that 500,000 horse is going to slaughter. Ever think that is run-down can no longer move, or has a diease. Or maybe did you think that their owner wasn't going to take care of them anyways so they saved them from starving in a pasture by sending them to slaughter.

    You said the problem is people don't care. I always feel like im repeating myself on here Its not a matter of what people should do, its what they do. And what they do is not care. Want to know what the real problem is? People who don't care, don't care, and will never care. So the horses that arn't cared for, need an escape. I feel that slaughter is that escape.
         
        02-14-2008, 12:57 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    This logic would be fine, if the only horses that went to slaughter were old, dying, skinny, malnourished or abandoned horses.
    But young, healthy, top quality horses are going to slaughter.
    And neglected horses are still dying in fields across the USA.

         

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