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Population Reduction

This is a discussion on Population Reduction within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category

     
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        02-14-2008, 02:34 PM
      #21
    Deb
    Foal
    The point of mentioning Hitler, was to show how important it is to take a stand against something, to fight against it, and only in doing so, will the evil be stopped. But if you have the attitude that "Oh well, we can't stop it, it's too powerful, so why bother" just allows the evil an arena in which to continue. Slavery in America was the same way. Someone had to take a stand against it, call it the evil that it was, and fight against it. So every battle must be a dual pronged attack. In the case of Hitler, you a)help the Jews escape, and b) you fight Hitler on his own ground. In the case of slavery, you a) give the slaves a way to escape to a new life and b) have a civil war that begins to change what is now becoming unnacceptable. In the case of horses (or any animal for that matter) you a) educate people on the horror of overpopulation and the violence of slaughterhouses and b) do whatever you can to provide rescue homes for the animals that you can save and c) you make it extremely difficult for people to make money off these innocent lives or dump their unwanted horses and one of the ways to do this is ending the wholesale slaughter.

    You say Hitler destroyed the Jews for power and gain. That is not so far removed from why killers go around the country, buying horses at auctions and from racing barns, and... for power and gain, both coming in the form of money. And whats more, you mention that the reason it is legal is for meat. And you are right to a degree. But I would submit to you, that by ceasing to consume meat, you not only help the animals that used to be on your menu, but you also help the environment. The consumption of meat products is bad for the environment. The congregation of huge numbers of animals in feedlots around the world, adds tremendously to the ground water pollution problems wherever they are housed. Cattle in particular add to the methane in the environment which contributes to the breakdown of the ozone layer that protects our world. The amount of grain foods and water that must go into cattle to bring these animals to marketable size, would feed so many of the worlds starving masses. And what is more, the consumption of meat products is bad for your personal health. Animal fat contributes to high cholestrol, obesity, heart disease, kidney disease, and on and on.

    Nobody wants horses to starve to death in a field. But to just throw up your hands and say oh well, can't change nothin', will do exactly that, change nothing. As so called civilized peoples, our goal should be to grow and improve and open up to compassion for all beings. So yes, we should be trying to stop wholesale, mindless horse (animal) slaughter, and wholesale, mindless horse(animal) breeding. Attack on as many fronts as you can think of and eventually the war gets won.
         
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        02-14-2008, 02:46 PM
      #22
    Deb
    Foal
    And by the way, just in case you are dead set on eating meat and are trusting that the FDA and meat inspectors everywhere are taking care of you, think about this.

    I have an aunt and uncle, very nice folks, you would like them I'm sure, and they raise cattle for the market. A few years ago, in the spring, they had a couple young calves die unexpectedly. Then they noticed a couple more beginning to exhibit the same early signs. The vet had not been able to cure the first pair, couldn't even say what it was. So rather than take a chance on loosing the income from that years calves, they shipped the whole lot of them, before they started showing any signs of problems. Common practice all over North America when farmers are trying to protect their bottom line. I wonder how many of those calves were carrying the bacteria that killed that first pair, and how many of you ate a burger from one of them? What's more, do a search on rendered pets, and you will find out a whole lot more than you want to know about what goes into the chicken food, and cattle feed, and pet food, that we buy each and every day. And you know the old saying "you are what you eat".

    As far as I can see, we all need to work to change the mindset of people and this comes about in so many ways, on so many fronts. But the start is in each one of us.
         
        02-14-2008, 04:13 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deb
    The consumption of meat products is bad for the environment.
    Fish eat coral, cat eat's fish, dog eat's cat, bear eats dog.

    Its how it works. Im certain the nautral process of consuming other animals isn't bad for the enviroment. If it is. The rest of the animal cycle is messed up.
         
        02-14-2008, 06:07 PM
      #24
    Showing
    I agree with you on that one delete. Chickens will eat other chickens, fish eat other fish, pigs eat anything. So whats wrong with eatting them? I know weird logic
         
        02-14-2008, 08:36 PM
      #25
    Deb
    Foal
    Fish eat coral, cat eat's fish, dog eat's cat, bear eats dog.

    Its how it works. Im certain the nautral process of consuming other animals isn't bad for the enviroment. If it is. The rest of the animal cycle is messed up.
    _________________
    .Delete.

    You are right, in the natural process, predator animals eating prey animals isn't bad for the environment. But the feedlots and row upon row of chicken sheds, hundreds of pigs in barns and fish pens aren't the natural process. And all of those cattle in the feedlots add concentrated feces and urine to the ground and it leaches into the ground water. Same with the waste of chickens, pigs and the salmon in fish pens on the Pacific coastline. As far as human health is concerned, eating meat is not a natural process either, we are simply accustomed to it but our physiology is more like a herbivores than a predators. Check this out: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

    [Choosing a nonvegetarian lifestyle has a significant health and medical cost. The total direct medical costs in the United States attributable to meat consumption were estimated to be $30-60 billion a year, based upon the higher prevalence of hypertension, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, gallstones, obesity and food-borne illness among omnivores compared with vegetarians (2). ] from The American Dietetic Association.

    The point of all this is that the consumption of horses is not normal, a necessity, nor is it acceptable just because some people choose to do it. So from that perspective, speaking out against it is good, not only for horses, but for those who eat them. But at the same time, it is necessary to educate people so that they begin to realize that breeding and adding horses to the pool of unwanted animals. And yes, you are right, animals should not be neglected and left to starve in fields since that appears to be a major concern of some of you, but that happens anyway even though the slaughter of horses is still going on.

    I want to take a second here to thank you all for the politeness that I have encountered on this thread. Sometimes when people are looking at an issue from different perspectives, it can get a little heated, but I think that we've done an amazing job of getting along don't you?
         
        02-14-2008, 08:40 PM
      #26
    Deb
    Foal
    Fish eat coral, cat eat's fish, dog eat's cat, bear eats dog.

    Its how it works. Im certain the nautral process of consuming other animals isn't bad for the enviroment. If it is. The rest of the animal cycle is messed up.
    _________________
    .Delete.

    You are right, in the natural process, predator animals eating prey animals isn't bad for the environment. But the feedlots and row upon row of chicken sheds, hundreds of pigs in barns and fish pens aren't the natural process. And all of those cattle in the feedlots add concentrated feces and urine to the ground and it leaches into the ground water. Same with the waste of chickens, pigs and the salmon in fish pens on the Pacific coastline. As far as human health is concerned, eating meat is not a natural process either, we are simply accustomed to it but our physiology is more like a herbivores than a predators. Check this out: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

    [Choosing a nonvegetarian lifestyle has a significant health and medical cost. The total direct medical costs in the United States attributable to meat consumption were estimated to be $30-60 billion a year, based upon the higher prevalence of hypertension, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, gallstones, obesity and food-borne illness among omnivores compared with vegetarians (2). ] from The American Dietetic Association.

    The point of all this is that the consumption of horses is not normal, a necessity, nor is it acceptable just because some people choose to do it. So from that perspective, speaking out against it is good, not only for horses, but for those who eat them. But at the same time, it is necessary to educate people so that they begin to realize that breeding and adding horses to the pool of unwanted animals isn't acceptable. And yes, you are right, animals should not be neglected and left to starve in fields since that appears to be a major concern of some of you, but that happens anyway even though the slaughter of horses is still going on.

    I want to take a second here to thank you all for the politeness that I have encountered on this thread. Sometimes when people are looking at an issue from different perspectives, it can get a little heated, but I think that we've done an amazing job of getting along don't you?
         
        02-14-2008, 08:42 PM
      #27
    Showing
    I was noticing that as well Deb. Hats off to all for staying civil.
         
        02-14-2008, 08:48 PM
      #28
    Deb
    Foal
    (
    (I know Harlee extremely well. I can tell you this, she does care, she cares enough to realize that slaughter and such is needed in this world. She cares enough to understand that no matter how many people complain and throw a fit about the poor horses dieing everyday isn't going to do anything. Its going to continue. Harlee does care, more then you know. Delete)

    You know years ago, some people got upset because of how ducks were being treated on fois gras farms. These birds are confined to shoe box size cages, and a steel pipe is rammed down their throats and four pounds of mash is pumped into them. This goes on for several weeks during which time, the poor ducks organs begin to fail and they become so obese in that short a time, that they are unable to walk. All so that some people can eat the diseased livers of these birds. That is what pate de fois gras is; diseased duck liver. As a result, eleven countries of the world have banned the production of it within their borders, because of the cruelty. Chicago no longer allows the sale of this product within the city limits and California also has a ban on it. That is what getting upset about something can achieve.
         
        02-14-2008, 08:50 PM
      #29
    Started
    Go ahead and think I'm a bad person for not caring. You have me all wrong though. I care enough about the abused, diseased, mistreated, yadda yadda, horses that I know they need to be slaughtered. You want to tell me how it will ever be possible to save a horse that hasn't been fed for 2 years? And if someone cared enough about a horse to let it starve half to death, you can be **** straight they aren't going to pay to humanely put it down.

    Comparison to Hitler, go ahead, think I'm horrible. If I was given the chance Hitler was, I would take it. I admire him for his quick domination of Russia, and almost the world. Good for him.

    Also that isn't a great comparison. Hitler killed for power. Slaughter kills for the treatment of over-population. It is a humane way of killing for those that won't kill. As in if your horse is dying, are you going to put it down? I should dearly hope so. Those that don't care, just don't care how their "prized possessions" leave this Earth.
         
        02-14-2008, 08:50 PM
      #30
    Deb
    Foal
    (
    (I know Harlee extremely well. I can tell you this, she does care, she cares enough to realize that slaughter and such is needed in this world. She cares enough to understand that no matter how many people complain and throw a fit about the poor horses dieing everyday isn't going to do anything. Its going to continue. Harlee does care, more then you know. Delete)

    You know years ago, some people got upset because of how ducks were being treated on fois gras farms. These birds are confined to shoe box size cages, and a steel pipe is rammed down their throats and four pounds of mash is pumped into them three or four times per day. This goes on for several weeks during which time, the poor ducks organs begin to fail and they become so obese in that short a time, that they are unable to walk. All so that some people can eat the diseased livers of these birds. That is what pate de fois gras is; diseased duck liver. As a result, eleven countries of the world have banned the production of it within their borders, because of the cruelty. As well, Chicago no longer allows the sale of this product within the city limits and California also has a ban on it. That is what getting upset about something can achieve.
         

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