The Pursuit of Instant Gratification - Page 3
 
 

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The Pursuit of Instant Gratification

This is a discussion on The Pursuit of Instant Gratification within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category

     
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        07-04-2011, 11:55 PM
      #21
    Banned
    What have we done to the horses?

    Since the topic of this thread has expanded considerably from the initial "taking the quick fix instead of the slow road" theme, here we go with more food for thought:

    Pictures will, for the moment, suffice for thousands of words (and sorry for the GIANT pics, but they emphasize the point):





















         
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        07-05-2011, 12:04 AM
      #22
    Weanling
    You are preaching to the choir. I don't even know what that last picture is... but it doesn't look good to me.

    All I can say is my horses have won the lottery. I will not waste even one minute of my life going to horse competitions and/or being in them. I would rather train for a marathon and run my butt into the ground than another creature. The people on those horses just look like devils to me and probably represent the very worst in competition no doubt.

    I think one of the worst things that has happened is all the bad breeding. Look at the halter and western pleasure horses. Like what is this a science experiment gone wrong. Nope I would rather have a mustang or a ranch bred working horse thank you very much. Two of my horses are nicely bred warmbloods but I doubt very much if they would be alive if it would have been natural selection which I believe is far superior to anything that humans have created.
         
        07-05-2011, 01:18 AM
      #23
    Weanling
    That last picture is the results of soaring, that many racking and/or walking horses are subjected to in an effort to product the walk or rack like the picture above it. It is a long time practice of many, many walking horse and racking horse trainers. The ring stewards usually overlook it, though it is an illegal practice. Each horse is supposed to be checked by the stewards for signs of soaring, but the horses have been beaten to where they are scared to move even when a hand is laid on a soared area. It's barbaric to say the least, and I'm sorry but the S-O-B's that practice this should have it done on their privates, so they might think twice about doing it to a horse again.
         
        07-05-2011, 07:19 AM
      #24
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    What have we done to the horses?
    If you think about it we can ask exactly same about pretty much anything. For example what about child/elderly abuse (and some other stuff I don't even want to bring on public forum with kids access)? Yes, there are those among us who indeed do all those horrible things. Does it mean ALL of us are like that? Definitely not. Most of us treat horse as a partner (and a friend). Moreover those POS (excuse my language) treating horses the way you posted are the minority. And lots of people stand up against such actions.
         
        07-05-2011, 08:56 AM
      #25
    Doe
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    If you think about it we can ask exactly same about pretty much anything. For example what about child/elderly abuse (and some other stuff I don't even want to bring on public forum with kids access)? Yes, there are those among us who indeed do all those horrible things. Does it mean ALL of us are like that? Definitely not. Most of us treat horse as a partner (and a friend). Moreover those POS (excuse my language) treating horses the way you posted are the minority. And lots of people stand up against such actions.
    Kitten Val

    I agree with what you say, in that this might not be the majority. I also understand that the discussion of abuse of horses is one which can become quite heated easily. However coming from the perspective that none of us in this discussion want to abuse horses if I may just pose some questions for genuine discussion.

    Firstly I agree that many people do not treat there horses this way. However whenever I have seen posts such as this with the photos, the reaction surprises me. Personally even one case of this is too many, and I have to say that it's more common than perhaps we want to admit, it's all a matter of degree.

    For example, whenever we discuss bits the answer will always come back with it's not the bit that harms it's how it's used. If we assume agreement with that statement, then we also take responsibility for not causing pain via a bit to a horses mouth. Yet every time I watch any horse sports (and please I am not attacking any sport here I am just raising questions for genuine discussion) I see horses with gaping mouths or raised heads trying to avoid the discomfort of the bit.

    I have been to reining competitions in the Uk, Germany and the US (including Oklahoma). Every time I have been to a competition I have seen trainers bumping horses mouths with a serious leverage bit such as a curb to make the horse lower it's headset before the ride. Now I've had people saying I'm sorry all you see is the negative, but that's what I see. It's a fact, and seeing as how it's seems most of the trainers are doing it, I have to consider it widespread.

    If I can give an example of my position. I retrain ex racing greyhounds in my spare time. I recondition them not to chase cats so they can live as pets. They make wonderful pets, but the normal standard they come to us is shocking. My own greyhound (RIP Ben the greatest dog I have ever had the privilege to meet March 2011) actually failed drugs tests on his last day and when I got him he was an addict! Yes he was addicted to Codene and cough mixture! Behind the rescue kennels is a trainer who brings in the dogs from Ireland as pups. In a lorry with 100 pups at a time I see 20-30 die en-route. It's a money and numbers game. Now on the other hand I know a couple of people who race greyhounds. They live and train only as pets. The dogs enjoy it, and when they retire they still have a loving home until they die. I have no problem with them. That is how it should be to me. However I will not step foot at the races, because by doing so my money is supporting the people like that trainer I talked of.

    This is why I do not personally compete with horses. It is a personal choice, but ultimately I have taken the responsibility I mentioned, and I cannot promise I will meet that responsibility in the heat of competition. It is too easy in the flash of a moment to pull on the horse, perhaps fight with it more than I want, even use a whip whatever. All things that would undo everything I work towards and stand for with any horse I meet, so I just wont put myself in that position.

    So my first question is - do we not want to discuss these things because we feel it might threaten what we love to do ourselves I.e compete? Genuine question for discussion, not to cause offence or single anyone out.
         
        07-05-2011, 10:04 AM
      #26
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    If you think about it we can ask exactly same about pretty much anything. For example what about child/elderly abuse (and some other stuff I don't even want to bring on public forum with kids access)? Yes, there are those among us who indeed do all those horrible things. Does it mean ALL of us are like that? Definitely not. Most of us treat horse as a partner (and a friend). Moreover those POS (excuse my language) treating horses the way you posted are the minority. And lots of people stand up against such actions.
    Unfortunately too many people look at 1% of a discipline and paint the whole discipline/horse world as abusers.

    Those people are the ones that inflame the majority. People like them usually are the ones that cause their way of thinking to be shut out immediately because they are so fanatical.

    If any of them really had an open mind ( which they say they do but in reality do not) then people outside of their way of thinking would look at what they have to offer instead of shutting them down instantly.

    The sad part is that parts of what they think, most people do or have done as part of a natural progression within their own training methods but are unwilling to say so for fear of being labeled as a member of one of these groups..

    This also refers to the original topic. While some feel they must get their horse out at 2 years ( 2 year old futurities come to mind) others wait for the horse to mature before it is asked to put their body to full use. It is up to the individual to assess their horse and that is the basis of thinking horsemanship, for in the end the results of their decision will come back to bite them in the rear or prove itself as a willing and able horse that is still working in its late teens.
         
        07-05-2011, 10:26 AM
      #27
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doe    
    Personally even one case of this is too many, and I have to say that it's more common than perhaps we want to admit, it's all a matter of degree.
    There is NO excuse to even one photo. I completely agree with it. IMHO abuse (whether it's animal or human) IS criminal and should be punished as one.

    However I don't think it's fair to give judgment on discipline (or riders/owners/breeders in general) based just on some very few people, who are the shame for those of us treating horses appropriately. I mean... If we want to be honest, we have to consider both sides of the picture, not just the dark one.
         
        07-05-2011, 11:57 AM
      #28
    Weanling
    I don't think that any discipline is getting singled out in this thread and I don't know if I completely agree with you Val. I think however that some members get really emotional very quickly if they even get a sense that something is being said about a sport that they're involved in. I just wish that they would get a little more upset that any of that stuff happens at all in the sense that there should be a better mechanism at these events to stop it. I know that there has been some reporting in recent history and I'm glad for that. BUT when I hear that you have to pay in order to report abuse I am simply unimpressed.

    I haven't been to a show in a few years but in all honesty the last one I attended (to watch Leslie Reid qualify for the Pan Am games) I didn't see abuse at all. It was a small group of people in attendance and other than Leslie getting upset in the practice ring and spurring her horse briefly because he wouldn't engage properly it was uneventful. I did think less of Leslie after seeing that but it also didn't make me sob. Before anyone gets upset I actually think Leslie is a fabulous rider - beautiful to watch and her horses usually very animated with lots of swung which is a head about most other riders and I guess it makes sense she has won gold at the Pan Am Games.

    Syder maybe what you say is true to some extent. I know horse people are very guilty of bashing people when it isn't warranted but I also think that we need to come together on these issues and not apart.
         
        07-05-2011, 12:02 PM
      #29
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLovedOne    
    BUT when I hear that you have to pay in order to report abuse I am simply unimpressed.
    What do you mean, TLO? Like paying police or animal rights just to report it? That sounds really weird to me!
         
        07-05-2011, 12:05 PM
      #30
    Yearling


    That was actually a demonstration; the horse wasn't left like that for more than 5 minutes at most, I believe..
         

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