The Pursuit of Instant Gratification - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 86 Old 07-04-2011, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,648
• Horses: 6
What have we done to the horses?

Since the topic of this thread has expanded considerably from the initial "taking the quick fix instead of the slow road" theme, here we go with more food for thought:

Pictures will, for the moment, suffice for thousands of words (and sorry for the GIANT pics, but they emphasize the point):





















bubba13 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 12:04 AM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 605
• Horses: 0
You are preaching to the choir. I don't even know what that last picture is... but it doesn't look good to me.

All I can say is my horses have won the lottery. I will not waste even one minute of my life going to horse competitions and/or being in them. I would rather train for a marathon and run my butt into the ground than another creature. The people on those horses just look like devils to me and probably represent the very worst in competition no doubt.

I think one of the worst things that has happened is all the bad breeding. Look at the halter and western pleasure horses. Like what is this a science experiment gone wrong. Nope I would rather have a mustang or a ranch bred working horse thank you very much. Two of my horses are nicely bred warmbloods but I doubt very much if they would be alive if it would have been natural selection which I believe is far superior to anything that humans have created.
TheLovedOne is offline  
post #23 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 01:18 AM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Camden, AR
Posts: 491
• Horses: 2
That last picture is the results of soaring, that many racking and/or walking horses are subjected to in an effort to product the walk or rack like the picture above it. It is a long time practice of many, many walking horse and racking horse trainers. The ring stewards usually overlook it, though it is an illegal practice. Each horse is supposed to be checked by the stewards for signs of soaring, but the horses have been beaten to where they are scared to move even when a hand is laid on a soared area. It's barbaric to say the least, and I'm sorry but the S-O-B's that practice this should have it done on their privates, so they might think twice about doing it to a horse again.
PaintedFury is offline  
post #24 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 07:19 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 23,907
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
What have we done to the horses?
If you think about it we can ask exactly same about pretty much anything. For example what about child/elderly abuse (and some other stuff I don't even want to bring on public forum with kids access)? Yes, there are those among us who indeed do all those horrible things. Does it mean ALL of us are like that? Definitely not. Most of us treat horse as a partner (and a friend). Moreover those POS (excuse my language) treating horses the way you posted are the minority. And lots of people stand up against such actions.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."

Last edited by Mike_Admin; 07-05-2011 at 08:16 AM.
kitten_Val is offline  
post #25 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 08:56 AM
Doe
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Uk
Posts: 394
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val View Post
If you think about it we can ask exactly same about pretty much anything. For example what about child/elderly abuse (and some other stuff I don't even want to bring on public forum with kids access)? Yes, there are those among us who indeed do all those horrible things. Does it mean ALL of us are like that? Definitely not. Most of us treat horse as a partner (and a friend). Moreover those POS (excuse my language) treating horses the way you posted are the minority. And lots of people stand up against such actions.
Kitten Val

I agree with what you say, in that this might not be the majority. I also understand that the discussion of abuse of horses is one which can become quite heated easily. However coming from the perspective that none of us in this discussion want to abuse horses if I may just pose some questions for genuine discussion.

Firstly I agree that many people do not treat there horses this way. However whenever I have seen posts such as this with the photos, the reaction surprises me. Personally even one case of this is too many, and I have to say that it's more common than perhaps we want to admit, it's all a matter of degree.

For example, whenever we discuss bits the answer will always come back with it's not the bit that harms it's how it's used. If we assume agreement with that statement, then we also take responsibility for not causing pain via a bit to a horses mouth. Yet every time I watch any horse sports (and please I am not attacking any sport here I am just raising questions for genuine discussion) I see horses with gaping mouths or raised heads trying to avoid the discomfort of the bit.

I have been to reining competitions in the Uk, Germany and the US (including Oklahoma). Every time I have been to a competition I have seen trainers bumping horses mouths with a serious leverage bit such as a curb to make the horse lower it's headset before the ride. Now I've had people saying I'm sorry all you see is the negative, but that's what I see. It's a fact, and seeing as how it's seems most of the trainers are doing it, I have to consider it widespread.

If I can give an example of my position. I retrain ex racing greyhounds in my spare time. I recondition them not to chase cats so they can live as pets. They make wonderful pets, but the normal standard they come to us is shocking. My own greyhound (RIP Ben the greatest dog I have ever had the privilege to meet March 2011) actually failed drugs tests on his last day and when I got him he was an addict! Yes he was addicted to Codene and cough mixture! Behind the rescue kennels is a trainer who brings in the dogs from Ireland as pups. In a lorry with 100 pups at a time I see 20-30 die en-route. It's a money and numbers game. Now on the other hand I know a couple of people who race greyhounds. They live and train only as pets. The dogs enjoy it, and when they retire they still have a loving home until they die. I have no problem with them. That is how it should be to me. However I will not step foot at the races, because by doing so my money is supporting the people like that trainer I talked of.

This is why I do not personally compete with horses. It is a personal choice, but ultimately I have taken the responsibility I mentioned, and I cannot promise I will meet that responsibility in the heat of competition. It is too easy in the flash of a moment to pull on the horse, perhaps fight with it more than I want, even use a whip whatever. All things that would undo everything I work towards and stand for with any horse I meet, so I just wont put myself in that position.

So my first question is - do we not want to discuss these things because we feel it might threaten what we love to do ourselves I.e compete? Genuine question for discussion, not to cause offence or single anyone out.

Last edited by Doe; 07-05-2011 at 09:00 AM.
Doe is offline  
post #26 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 10:04 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,526
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val View Post
If you think about it we can ask exactly same about pretty much anything. For example what about child/elderly abuse (and some other stuff I don't even want to bring on public forum with kids access)? Yes, there are those among us who indeed do all those horrible things. Does it mean ALL of us are like that? Definitely not. Most of us treat horse as a partner (and a friend). Moreover those POS (excuse my language) treating horses the way you posted are the minority. And lots of people stand up against such actions.
Unfortunately too many people look at 1% of a discipline and paint the whole discipline/horse world as abusers.

Those people are the ones that inflame the majority. People like them usually are the ones that cause their way of thinking to be shut out immediately because they are so fanatical.

If any of them really had an open mind ( which they say they do but in reality do not) then people outside of their way of thinking would look at what they have to offer instead of shutting them down instantly.

The sad part is that parts of what they think, most people do or have done as part of a natural progression within their own training methods but are unwilling to say so for fear of being labeled as a member of one of these groups..

This also refers to the original topic. While some feel they must get their horse out at 2 years ( 2 year old futurities come to mind) others wait for the horse to mature before it is asked to put their body to full use. It is up to the individual to assess their horse and that is the basis of thinking horsemanship, for in the end the results of their decision will come back to bite them in the rear or prove itself as a willing and able horse that is still working in its late teens.
Spyder is offline  
post #27 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 23,907
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doe View Post
Personally even one case of this is too many, and I have to say that it's more common than perhaps we want to admit, it's all a matter of degree.
There is NO excuse to even one photo. I completely agree with it. IMHO abuse (whether it's animal or human) IS criminal and should be punished as one.

However I don't think it's fair to give judgment on discipline (or riders/owners/breeders in general) based just on some very few people, who are the shame for those of us treating horses appropriately. I mean... If we want to be honest, we have to consider both sides of the picture, not just the dark one.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."
kitten_Val is offline  
post #28 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 11:57 AM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 605
• Horses: 0
I don't think that any discipline is getting singled out in this thread and I don't know if I completely agree with you Val. I think however that some members get really emotional very quickly if they even get a sense that something is being said about a sport that they're involved in. I just wish that they would get a little more upset that any of that stuff happens at all in the sense that there should be a better mechanism at these events to stop it. I know that there has been some reporting in recent history and I'm glad for that. BUT when I hear that you have to pay in order to report abuse I am simply unimpressed.

I haven't been to a show in a few years but in all honesty the last one I attended (to watch Leslie Reid qualify for the Pan Am games) I didn't see abuse at all. It was a small group of people in attendance and other than Leslie getting upset in the practice ring and spurring her horse briefly because he wouldn't engage properly it was uneventful. I did think less of Leslie after seeing that but it also didn't make me sob. Before anyone gets upset I actually think Leslie is a fabulous rider - beautiful to watch and her horses usually very animated with lots of swung which is a head about most other riders and I guess it makes sense she has won gold at the Pan Am Games.

Syder maybe what you say is true to some extent. I know horse people are very guilty of bashing people when it isn't warranted but I also think that we need to come together on these issues and not apart.
TheLovedOne is offline  
post #29 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 23,907
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLovedOne View Post
BUT when I hear that you have to pay in order to report abuse I am simply unimpressed.
What do you mean, TLO? Like paying police or animal rights just to report it? That sounds really weird to me!

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."
kitten_Val is offline  
post #30 of 86 Old 07-05-2011, 12:05 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,143
• Horses: 3


That was actually a demonstration; the horse wasn't left like that for more than 5 minutes at most, I believe..


EQUILOVE
Equilove is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AOL Instant Messenger... anyone? Britt General Off Topic Discussion 8 04-17-2009 08:29 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome