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Ranting on Anti-Slaughter/Abuse

7K views 59 replies 18 participants last post by  MacabreMikolaj 
#1 ·
I've made this rant somewhere before, be it on here or elsewhere I don't recall, but while looking up information on an upcoming auction, I rather innocently clicked on a YouTube link. The video was one of those usual "This auction house is killing all the pretty ponies!" ones -- they video taped some goings ons and pointed out every little wrong that happened. I've been disgusted at these types of videos before, but this one hit home; I was familiar with this auction house, I knew the owners (in passing; I wouldn't call us friends. So I can't even claim bias.), and I'd even bout two horses from that very auction house.
Here's the video, for the curious:

"Canadian trucks transporting horses for slaughter arrive at the auction"
Yeah, and? There's a market for horse by-products. It's a fact. If there wasn't we wouldn't have slaughterhouses. No amount of dramatic videos on youtube is going to dissuade whoever out there is using horse by-products from doing so. Picketing/boycotting/etc might do in some, sure. Call me a nay-sayer, but I don't see talking /the entire planet/ into not using horse by-products as a realistic goal.
But, for the sake of argument, let's say that happens. No more demand for horsemeat and such. This would mean no profit for slaughterhouses, so they'd shut down. Win/Win? No. For one, there's the loss of jobs that comes with the closing down of any business. Oh, sorry, we're only worried about horses here; I'll try to stay focused. Now, what do we do with all those unwanted horses? Give them to all of the little girls and boys out there who've always wanted a horse? Uh, yeah, let's ask their parents about that first. Not every person who wants a horse can realistically afford to /buy/ a horse, then there's the matter of where to keep it, and -- oh yeah! -- that pesky upkeep cost that lasts for years afterward, including important stuff, like food! So we've rules out making some kid's dream come true.
Rescue shelters? Nope sorry. I don't run one myself, but the way I understand it, they aren't exactly the most profitable business. A rescue shelter can only support a set number of horses before they're overrun by horses (and thus overrun by people with cameras who post videos to YouTube of 'starved, abused' horses.).
Well, I guess you could euthanize them. You know, a quick shot, and they go take a long nap. Well, see, there's a problem there, too. Say John Doe can't afford to keep Ol' Betsy anymore. He got laid off, bills came in, and the kid's were hungry. Hard times, hard decisions, he has to get rid of the horse. With the horse market as it is (and I'll get back to that), he couldn't sell her and, well, she is getting up there in years, she's starting to get a little blind in that left eye, arthritis is catching up to her. She's had a good life, been treated well as John Doe could manage. Now, John Doe has some options: He could call in the vet and get her euthanized, or he could put a well-placed bullet in her head. Don't just assume euthanization, though: There's the cost for the vet to come out, the cost of the shot, and then they have to dispose of the body. You can pay to have it hauled away, pay to have it cremated, or pay to have it buried. Even if you use your own equipment and such and bury the horse on your own property (where that's even legal to do so), there's money lost in gas and labor. Versus that bullet: You just saved that money on the vet and shot, and that's something.
Another thing to keep in mind? Now, I'm no vet, but the way I understand it, euthanasia basically knocks the animal unconscious, then stops it's lungs, then it's heart. So... it suffocates. And then has a heart attack. That unconscious part is just there to keep the animal from flailing around. Peachy.
That well-placed bullet? Takes the horse out quickly, with minimum pain. (When done correctly.)
Or, and I'll go back to my John Doe example, he can take Ol' Betsy to auction. Hope to get a little cash out of her. She might go to a happy family, she might go to a slaughter house. I can only hope that that slaughter house is well-maintained and follows anti-cruelty regulations -- oops, nope, slaughter houses are illegal in the U.S. now. She'd be shipped miles to Canada or Mexico, where the U.S. regulations aren't applied. I'm not saying they're automatically inhumane, but we have no way of regulating them.
I would also like to giggle and point out that one of those "Canadian kill buyer trucks" they show is my truck. And what's even the point of showing the Amish buggy/horse?

"Approximately 350 loose horses are sold to slaughter buyers that day"
Really now? Do all the winning bidders hold signs above their heads that say "Hey! I'm a kill buyer! Every horse I buy is going to slaughter!" Are the filmers doing exit surveys, standing at the door and asking "Are you a kill buyer? How many horses did you buy today? OK, Thank you, rot in hell. =D"
I've never understood where they get these numbers. Do they just count every horse at the auction and assume they're all going to kill? I've bought horses at this particular auction house; so has my uncle, and several of my friends. Plus, it's in Amish country -- there's always Amish buying horses too. Granted, there probably are kill buyers there, but they're not buying out every horse in the auction house.
Also, that little flash of an injured horse, right at the end of this section: Yes, maybe it got hurt at the auction house. Or maybe it's careless current-owner let it get hurt in the trailer. Or, hell, maybe it just is clumsy and got hurt! It's not a life threatening injury, it doesn't even look like it'll leave much of a scar!

"The slaughter horses are then put into overcrowded pens with an extremely low ceiling. The horses hit their heads on the ceiling beams."
LOL, what? That's nowhere on the property. The pens at Kalona have tall ceilings, are brightly lit, and at most have five or six horses in them.

"Horses are then rushed into overcrowded pens closer to the auction ring. Again fighting, kicking and biting result from lack of regard for these horses."
HEY! HEY LOOK! Those are the pens they keep horses in! See those high ceilings?
And fighting results from horses fighting. They do that sometimes. My six horses have a huge, open pasture to run around in, and they still fight sometimes.
Now, I will admit here: there are too many horses in that pen. But I will also point out that generally, Kalona is pretty empty. Generally, they don't have that many horses. The last one I went to, the most horses they ran in at one time was two or three.

"Behind the auction ring, the horses are forced to pass through a heavy hydraulic gate. The horses are crushed between the doors of the gate. Their heads are caught in between solid steel."
Notice him stopping the doors from closing on the horses? Yes, it's kind of a dumb system. But he apparently has a button on there that stops the doors. So the horses got bumped a bit. Example: That buckskin, in the first shot? See the door pause as he heads for it? Then it stays open enough that he can slip back through it?
Also, if those doors are so solid and heavy, why do they look so flimsy?

"After the sale, the horses are loaded immediately onto the trucks destined for the slaughter house. The horses leave for their last ride - through the cold and snowy Iowa night."
I don't have much to say on this. I already went into the "Yes, there is slaughter."
Otherwise, it's just... seriously? Do they have nothing better to do than stalk some truck? Also, they only showed one truck that was positively marked as destined for Canada. What about all those other trailers that were there? They didn't buy anything?



On anti-slaughter in general:
I already went through most of my spiel. I just want to leave you with why I feel slaughter houses are necessary.
With slaughter houses outlawed in the States, unwanted horses, ideally, could be either sold, euthanized, or sent to a rescue farm. Or sold at an auction. I went through all those options earlier. There's also the option that most horse-loving people wouldn't even consider to be an option: Abandonment. There have been reports in my area of horses that were simply abandoned roadside, or left in other people's pastures... a few times, even, the owner would move and leave the horses in their pasture for the house buyer to deal with.
With the horse market as bad as it is, and some, perfectly good, horses going for <$200, Joe Blow from down the street can afford to buy a horse without thinking about the future needs of the horse. So it could receive inadequate care, or end up back on the market again awhile down the road.
Slaughter houses offer a place for excess horses to go. It's not exactly glamorous, but it's a necessary evil. If we allowed them to be reopened, and then kept them closely regulated, horses wouldn't need to be transported for miles to the border to slaughter houses outside the U.S.

If that sounded harsh, well, I won't apologize. That's my opinion. If you have any opposing opinions, I'm not necessarily close-minded to them. If you want to call me out with facts, feel free; but please have resources to back you up.
 
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#2 ·
I completly disagree with you. That video was by far the tamest one i've saw, maybe you should watch one of the "better" ones.

And I think all slaughter houses should be shut down. I don't give a rats *** about people losing jobs, I really don't.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I don't give a rats *** about people losing jobs, I really don't.
Nice. :shock:

Let's hope your parents, siblings, significant other, or anyone you care about lose their jobs, since you don't give a rat's *** about people losing their livelihoods, homes, or being unable to feed and clothe their families.

Maybe you'll have to give up your horses and then you'll get to see how the other half lives, barely getting by, wondering where their next meal is coming from.

Rubaiyate, you're mostly preaching to the choir, dear. Except for a few nasty, notable exceptions, most people on this BB don't have a problem with reopening the U.S. equine slaughter houses.
 
#5 ·
Wouldn't it be better to send your horse to the slaughter house then to someone who isn't going to be able to take care of it?

You hit the nail on the head RB...it is a neccessary evil.

Ray...guess you were lucky enough to get a job where you don't have to worry about being laid off. Must be nice...
 
#12 ·
i def. agree with you. i was against slaughter for many years til my instructor/trainer. but i see it as necessary now. many of the horses values have decreased. i wouldnt want to see any of my horses abused or in a family that just couldnt afford to take care of them anymore. horses dont sale all that great in this economy. dont think about this with your hearts. you need to think about this subject with your mind. common sense i guess. horse slaughter is a very touchy subject as it is. i wouldnt want to see my beloved horse in a slaughterhouse but i wouldnt want to see him abused and starved either.
 
#6 ·
I have seen worse ones, and I don't doubt for one minute that there are auction houses that operate under terrible conditions. I just happen to be familiar with this particular auction house, and am angered by the light these people are trying to shine on it. Yes, there are faults, but overall, the auction house is run cleanly and without undue stress on the animals. It's primarily run by Amish -- and the Amish make a living off their horses. Why on earth would they abuse and injure them, thus rendering the animal useless?

And to ShutUpJoe... I've bought horses there before -- there usually are some nice horses run through their ring. I bought my mare Ruby there, and she may be a short little grade, but personality-wise, she's an absolute angel - I can put anybody of any age or experience level on her and she'll do exactly as asked.
 
#7 ·
I'm not trying to come off as a b*tch I'm really not. If someone I knew did loose their job (If they didn't work at a slaughter house) I would feel bad.

It's just that I am sooo passionate about horses that obviously I don't want to see or hear about them getting slaughtered. I just REALLY love horses.

And I don't have a job... I don't really plan on getting a "normal" job, being paid minum wage.. I have school and two horses that I need to take care of. I don't have time.
 
#10 ·
I just REALLY love horses.
As do we all. Being pro equine slaughter doesn't make someone an evil, unfeeling monster. We're merely aware of how the real world works.

And I don't have a job... I don't really plan on getting a "normal" job, being paid minum wage.. I have school and two horses that I need to take care of. I don't have time.
So what kind of 'non-normal' job do you plan to get? I'm not very happy with your snobby attitude about minimum wage jobs. They're honest work, and many fine people work for minimum wage. Not everyone is going to make $100,000 a year, you know.

You're obviously a child who has no concept of what it means to have to scrape, scrabble, and earn a decent living wage.

If you think you're going to come out of HS or college and make a six figure salary, you're very mistaken. You'll be lucky to get $20,000 a year to start.

So be extremely thankful that Mommy and Daddy are footing all your bills at the moment, and hope you're not kicked out of the nest to fend for yourself sooner than you want.

It's interesting that somehow I found the time to work full time, go to college at night, and manage to care for my own horse. But then, I guess I'm not as delicate and special as some.
 
#9 ·
My stand on slaughter.

I would rather see a horse go through one or two days of uncomfortable than 6 months of starving to death.

Do I like slaughter? NO! Do I think it is neccessary. Yes. Its sad but true. What I cannot stand is when rescues post a horse that they 'saved from slaughter' who is 400 pounds under weight, 25 years old with COPD. Meanwhile, they passed on 20 registered horses ready to be adopted. I still haven't decided what these people are thinking. Is it a statement buy? "Look at us...we saved this poor old soul" or is it a financial buy? "He only went for $25!" or is it a pity buy? "Poor fella deserves to die fat and happy" I can related to all of those reasons...but I still don't see the sense in it.
 
#13 ·
My job wasn't great, but it's paying for the gas to drive my car to go to school and see my horse.
 
#14 ·
I'm working retail, $8.50/hr at my new job, $7.50/hr at my old job. Part-time work, and full-time college classes, and six horses, two dogs, a cat, and a rabbit to take care of. I'm grateful for the support my parents give me -- they pay the vet/farrier bills, and dad buys most of the hay. I buy grain/mineral blocks and all of the other horse necessities. I keep gas in the truck and do most of the upkeep on both it and the trailer, drive myself to my shows, and then pay my own show fees too.

So, Ray, think about that. What do you mean by you're not going to do a "normal job"? For one, you'll probably end up working retail or fast food part time eventually. If anything, it looks better on a resume than handing over a blank paper. My dream is to work for IBM or one of those other big computer companies -- I'm working my butt off for that job. But in the meantime, I have to work these not-so-glamorous jobs so I can afford school and still get by, while still building up my resume and job skills.
 
#16 ·
I like your post ponyboy,

What I mean is right now I'm 16... Don't plan on getting a job like at the mall or some other place, I'm focusing on horses. I plan on going to AC to get all of the my schooling out of the way.

And I know I am a VERY fortunate kid! I don't have the need to work. And yes, Mommy and Daddy pay for most things, So what? But don't think my parents are some kind of special doctors or anything... My mom is a nurse and my dad works for the highway garage (Builds bridges and drives the snow plow)

I also have 3 older sisters all in college. My parents will pay for the first 2 year of it and if they can't afford it I will get I job I'm not against getting a normal job to save up for my school.

I just really hate horse slaughter because we can fix it. We just have to only breed the best horses and train them the right way so there will always a demand for good quality horses and to stop back yard breeding thats creating most of the horses that go to slaughter.

And don't go bashing my opinion or my life just because I simple disagree with horse slaughter.
 
#20 ·
my dad works for the highway garage (Builds bridges and drives the snow plow)
Please thank your dad for doing his job because I would be horribly screwed without people like him.

Okay, back on topic, I'll go back to my cave now.
 
#17 · (Edited)
How can we fix horses from going to slaughter when it is obvious that out in the big grand world, people already CANT afford things that they have. People are going bankrupt and having to sell anything they can, including their horses to try to stay above water. If that means their horse has to go through an auction and God forbid to a slaughter house, that little bit of money to keep food on their table and gas in their vehicles so that they CAN get to work for what they make, whether it be for big bucks or minimum with tips. It isn't always the back yard breeding...and some of the best horses aren't papered horses...which are normally more expensive. Top quality horses could still end up run down at the end of their life after being passed through many hands, so then what are you going to do with it? That horse could still end up a rescue....

I don't have any college education and work in a warehouse. I dont make great money but I make decent money. Minimum wage around here is $10ish an hour, but is expensive to live(a decent house is over $200k at least) I live at home(pay rent, for my groceries, car insurance, gas, phone, riding lessons etc etc.) but still wouldnt be able to afford the care of a horse. If I unfortunately lost my job, I would be devastated and sell EVERYTHING I could to be able to afford a vehicle to still be able to go to work. That would include any animals owned.

So if your parents can't afford to pay for your last bit of schooling, and you haven't worked a job up until then, how are you going to pay for the last bit of your schooling? Employers would rather see that you worked that sh!tty job in high school and college as it proves a bit more that you are willing to work for what you have, and to where you have gotten.

ETA: I do not believe in horse slaughter either, but in the end I think that it is better that we have it then not.
 
#19 ·
In some areas yes! LOL Because I think if I knew everything I'd be murdering people...

I do understand that there are just to many horses on this earth, I wasn't talking about some quick fix, I mean if we only bred the best horses to get the best foals there wouldn't be need for slaughter.

And I do understand about the loosing the job and trying to stay okay... And I can and will work if need be.

Sorry to be a pain about the whole thing its just that I have been teased and absolutly tormented about the killing and abuse of horses. And of course my stubborn and strong love for horses has pretty much drove me to freak when someone isn't totally anti-slaughter.
 
#21 ·
I do understand that there are just to many horses on this earth, I wasn't talking about some quick fix, I mean if we only bred the best horses to get the best foals there wouldn't be need for slaughter.
Those foals sound like they would come with a higher price tag to begin with...
 
#23 ·
I think most of us at age 16 were horrified by the idea of horse slaughter, and were willing to crusade to save them all. It is a very idealistic age.
Ray, I am glad that you recognize how fortunate your position in life is, many are not so lucky.
No one Likes the idea of killing so many horses, but as mentioned here (and in the puppy thread) it is a necessary evil.
 
#24 ·
Yeah, I do completely understand why it is necessary because there are too many horses. But I do still firmly believe we can fix it... and if those foals do come a little more expensive maybe they would be taken better care of, you could buy a $100 car or a 20,000 to 50,00 dollar car, which would you take care of better?

And it's just that a lot of them don't do it humanly... They are crammed into small trailers and they fall down, don't get food or water for long periods of time, and when they do get there people don't give a **** about them...

And I will try to save 'em all! ;) at least as many as I can (financially)
 
#30 ·
But I do still firmly believe we can fix it... and if those foals do come a little more expensive maybe they would be taken better care of, you could buy a $100 car or a 20,000 to 50,00 dollar car, which would you take care of better?
I got JJ for the sum total of zero dollars. I adore that horse. He's worth as much or more to me than any of the horses I've paid good money for over the years.

I find it insulting that you would believe those of us who take on a horse for little or nothing would treat them less well than those for whom we've paid a hefty price.

It doesn't work that way. Horses are living, breathing, sentient beings. You can't compare them to an inanimate object like a car. It's like comparing apples to kangaroos.

I take good care of my vehicle as well. Brand new it cost me far less than $20,000. I've had it for 13 years now, and I've spent a lot of money keeping it on the road. So there goes your theory out the window for horses AND vehicles.
 
#25 ·
There are Ministry of Transportation (here in Canada) rules as well as DOT (US) restrictions and regulations on the transport of horses. Yes, some people wont abide by the rules, but they would get HEFTY fines. If I remember correctly, there are also rules about this as well but I cant remember what they are off the top of my head.

I dunno about anyone else, by my $2500 fifteen year old car means the world to me. No car = hard time getting to work = no riding lessons. Just cause she's old doesnt mean I am going to beat the poop out of her! Betsy is probably not worth much as when I got her, but still. Most people are in the same situation unless they buy a winter beater for that purpose (only because apparently people who grew up around snow cant drive in snow...go figures).
 
#26 ·
I mean if you do buy a little crap car for $100 or one for $2500 which one would you take better care of? And my sister just bought a car not that long ago for I think only $1000? It's a nice little car!

Why can't they drive in snow?
 
#27 ·
$2500 is still a cheap car.... Most of the time for that much around here you wont get anything that has less then 200,000 km's on them, and most of the time rough shape. You can get lucky of course, but it still isn't really truely a good car. I got lucky and bought it off my brother who had gotten it from my grandparents. It was low kms, never winter driven as it was in Florida, so the salt has only had a few years to eat away at the car. I've still put at least that amount into repairs on it, so really it is now getting close to a $6000 car. That isn't even considering the insurance on it, or oil changes.

But it is the same with horse....not all horses have to be expensive to be good. You can get PMU colts that are good for anything you want them to do. You add some training onto them and the now $400 colt is now a $2000 colt. In the end, I think it would be too difficult to stop BYB effectively enough that there wouldn't be any unwanted horses out there to go to slaughter. Some jackbutt is still going to do it because he can. Besides, well bred horses can still have problems. Look at QH's for example with the Lethal White and the HYPP. We had a well bred baby a few years back that had something wrong internally and he peed out of his umbilical cord. Just because a horse has a good pedigree doesn't mean he will be a good horse either. The Earl line of Standardbred's are fast horse, but honestly it seems almost all of his offspring get his nasty temperment.....people keep breeding to this line because it (usually) produces a fast horse.

Scared. Bad drivers. Dont understand 2 or 4 wheel drive vehicles. Not enough driving experience. Etc etc.
 
#33 ·
sometimes the best horses are the ones that dont cost alot. like 5,000. true they may not have the best confo ever. but for most ppl a cheaper horse is best. most ppl dont want to show. as it so expensive to show. i would love to get my own QH and show in the district but with a baby on the way its already difficult.
i understand what is being said bout what would you take care more? something that cost $200 or something that costs $30,000. i would take care of both. if its cars. i would drive the cheaper one throughout the week and drive the more expensive one on weekends or special occasions. but thats speaking of cars not horses. horses you have to feed everyday. take care. cars you just put gas in them and with a lil mechanical work and your set.
 
#34 ·
Kay SR your albert einstein! BTW my mare abby, yeah got her for zero dollars also! And I love her to bits and would never sell her... So we can just drop it the whole convo now that SR and her brilliant mind made everything better...
 
#36 ·
Apparently so.

Teenagers don't like to be told they don't know everything, or that their worldview might be skewed because of their lack of life experience.

The good thing is that she'll most likely grow out of it. I know I did. :wink:
 
#37 · (Edited)
So we shold make horse ownership an exclusive club? I have understand as a 16 year old world views are a bit ignorant, but who should decide the floor price. What if a well bred horse turns out to be a dud? Who should over pay for that? You need to realize that these horses weren't bred for slaughter, but that is the only demand. I have seen well bred horses sell for $200 or less at production sales.

Many people that can only afford a cheap vehicle take better care of it than some that can afford to buy high priced vehicles. Why? Because it is of value to them. Same goes for horses. Just because a horse is well bred and high priced doesn't mean it won't be abused or neglected. I know of a horse that was bred by a backyard breeder that has won world chamionships in it's class.

That being said I know a bunch of people that breed without thinking of consequenses, but your suloution isn't realistic, or would it solve many problems...
 
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