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Why do horse lovers support slaughter?

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        12-26-2011, 05:19 PM
      #121
    Started
    Have you ever watched a HUMANE society destroy dogs druydes? Euthanasias go wrong all the time when they are trying to kill so many dogs in one day.. How about the chambers some still use, they throw the dogs in while sedated, if it hasn't worn off, and the dogs and cats die horrible deaths.
    Do you not care about cows? Have you watched them die also? Dying, when done by humans is mostly fast and quick, but mistakes happen. Dying by starving to death is not exactly pleasant. Nor is a broken horse death by herd mates pleasant either.
    You are saying over and over that you have seen hundreds of horses die, while their legs are being cut off while alive, tortured, etc.. This was done where? You witnessed it? Did you do something while this was happening or did you just watch? Did you report this to the state where this happened?
    I am glad you are so against horse slaughter. Do you happen to have the money and land to support the horses nobody else can take care of? I take care of my animals, but could not afford to take care of someone elses sick, dying or injured horse. Guess you must be lucky to be so fortunate to be able to condemn the rest of us lowly humans who feel horse slaughter is a necessity.
    In a perfect world killing of all animals would be pretty and perfect, but it won't happen in our lifetimes.
         
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        12-26-2011, 05:55 PM
      #122
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wyominggrandma    
    Have you ever watched a HUMANE society destroy dogs druydes? Euthanasias go wrong all the time when they are trying to kill so many dogs in one day.. How about the chambers some still use, they throw the dogs in while sedated, if it hasn't worn off, and the dogs and cats die horrible deaths.
    Do you not care about cows? Have you watched them die also? Dying, when done by humans is mostly fast and quick, but mistakes happen. Dying by starving to death is not exactly pleasant. Nor is a broken horse death by herd mates pleasant either.
    You are saying over and over that you have seen hundreds of horses die, while their legs are being cut off while alive, tortured, etc.. This was done where? You witnessed it? Did you do something while this was happening or did you just watch? Did you report this to the state where this happened?
    I am glad you are so against horse slaughter. Do you happen to have the money and land to support the horses nobody else can take care of? I take care of my animals, but could not afford to take care of someone elses sick, dying or injured horse. Guess you must be lucky to be so fortunate to be able to condemn the rest of us lowly humans who feel horse slaughter is a necessity.
    In a perfect world killing of all animals would be pretty and perfect, but it won't happen in our lifetimes.
    WGrandma,

    There is really no need for such anger. This is my moral choice and if you feel comfortable with yours, that's up to you. I simply am not ok with how horses are slaughtered and how much money is made from their brutalization resulting form preventable situations.
    Yes, I am aware of the dog and cat gassing, though that really isn't the topic at hand. If it were my animal, gassing is definitely prefered over attempting to nail a moving horse in the head. I have had to put some of my own animals down as well. My cats are always kept inside and altered. I encourage all I know to alter their animals. A friend of mine has an animal rescue and we handle and fix many cats and dogs. So, I DO address what I can and change it as I am able.
    I did not say I've seen hundreds of horses die.. I have been present for hundreds of HUMAN deaths, and some animals. Much of my job is to manage dying people. I made that statement as someone assumed I might not know the difference between reflexes and death throes.
    Reporting abuse to the state re: a slaughterhouse is akin to telling the fox the chickens are being abused. The state knew what was going on and didn't care. Kickbacks do amazing things for morality. I suppose I could have wrestled the guy with the machete to the ground, but it didn't seem like a bright idea at the time. However, the power of the pen and influencing legislation IS something I did, which apparently had some effect.
    I have taken in rescues, support charities, and will continue to provide whatever help I can. There are 2 new rescues at the barn now. I will use my time, my vote, and my money to exact change at every opportunity. One doesn't need to rich and have acres of land to right a wrong.
    What I condemn is inhuman behavior and our acceptance of it.
    Celeste likes this.
         
        12-26-2011, 06:06 PM
      #123
    Banned
    If there are so many that are anti-slaughter, why spend time debating milk contaminants and instead, take to pen and paper. Write everyone that you can and tell them that you want the USDA to truly enforce a humane slaughterhouse. What does it matter who is pro-slaughter or anti-slaughter? In the end, horses are still going to be slaughtered, why not do everything in your power to make sure that their death is as easy as one can be?
         
        12-26-2011, 06:50 PM
      #124
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Druydess    
    It's very simple. I have seen how inhumane it is. I have seen horses legs being sawed off while they were clearly alive...
    Did you file animal abuse charges?

    Arizona law : 2. "Cruel mistreatment" means to torture or otherwise inflict unnecessary serious physical injury upon an animal or to kill an animal in a manner that causes protracted suffering to the animal.

    "Reporting abuse to the state re: a slaughterhouse is akin to telling the fox the chickens are being abused. The state knew what was going on and didn't care. Kickbacks do amazing things for morality. I suppose I could have wrestled the guy with the machete to the ground, but it didn't seem like a bright idea at the time."

    Newspapers? Humane Society?
         
        12-26-2011, 07:17 PM
      #125
    Trained
    Methods of euthanasia for dogs and cats are regulated by the individual states. In Georgia, no pets are put in a gas chamber. They are killed by lethal injection, and state inspectors check each facility including pounds, shelters, and veterinary hospitals to be sure. I have been inspected. They do show up. They do look at your facilities. If someone had a gas chamber, they would be shut down.

    Also, if in the state of Georgia, if a veterinarian were to kill a horse with a nail or by cutting its throat, they would probably lose their license and serve prison time.
         
        12-26-2011, 07:27 PM
      #126
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Druydess    
    It's very simple. I have seen how inhumane it is. I have seen horses legs being sawed off while they were clearly alive. I have seen hundreds of deaths and understand exactly what the death process is. I know the difference between reflexes and painful attempts to evade torture.
    If we as a society choose to turn a blind eye to the inhumanity of animal abuse and torture for our own convenience and profit, I have little faith in the evolution of our race and ethics as people.
    Just because some deem slaughter necessary does not absolve them of the duty to recognize when it is being carried out cruelly, arrogantly, and with little compassion or thought as to what is right.
    If people really saw first hand what goes on in these death pits, they'd likely have a better understanding. However, most are content not to think much about it as it "happens" elsewhere...out of sight and mind.
    The plant you saw, if you even saw what you claim, is now closed. Unless you have visited the Canadian plants (some of which have received glowing reviews from equine welfare organizations) or the not-yet-opened new American plants, your past experience is irrelevant to the current debate. I have, however, seen horses die of neglect. Horrible, horrible things. The stunted, starving two-year-old filly who busted through a barbed wire fence and had a stillborn foal in the middle of the road. The two geldings who slowly wasted away over months from founder, with open sores on their sides and pus oozing around their coronary bands from holes inches deep as their hooves rotted from the inside out. And I have seen the authorities do absolutely nothing about it when the conditions are reported.

    Do you think anyone here likes slaughter? Really? I used to be against it, and then I grew up. Had a wake-up call. Humane issues should and must be addressed, of course, and they will be addressed at the new plants. Temple Grandin and others are working on it. A huge part of the reason for re-opening the US plants, keep in mind, is to spare horses from the horrors of Mexico!

    Quote:
    Personally, I as a human being, can not, and will not support an industry that epitomizes abuse, cruelty, and blatant disregard of respect for life, as well as little regard for effects of possible chemical contamination. It's a personal stand that morally I have no choice but to take.
    So you can pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority over all us heathens. That's great. Good for you!

    Problem is, you're doing absolutely nothing to solve the problem except criticizng others for their beliefs.

    Me, I've bought and rehabbed horses that would have probably (certainly, in one case) gone to the killer otherwise. As they are my responsibility, I refuse to sell mine (even the ones I don't particularly like) so that I know they are living excellent lives; were I for some reason to sell one, I would screen homes diligently and settle for less money if that was the only way I could guarantee a responsible owner. I train mine so that they have value, should catastrophe strike, but they are also protected with a stipulation in my parents' will. Over the past few years, I have spent approximately $10,000 on vet bills....just for two of my horses' soundness problems alone. That's not counting routine shots, dental, other minor cuts and lamenesses, or farriery....or feed, supplements, bedding, or anything else. And that wasn't even so I could compete on them. It was for the comfort and quality of life of two valueless retirees. That money would have bought me a new horse several times over, or I would have certainly preferred to either save it or spend it on myself, rather than giving it to the vet...

    I also do my part by not contributing to the overpopulation problem. I have two pretty nice mares, and I'd love to have a baby out of them, but I don't breed because I feel that would be irresponsible.

    So don't you or others dare assume some level of superiority. I put my money where my mouth is. Do you? If you are so concerned about horse slaughter, what are you doing to solve the overpopulation problem that makes it necessary in the first place (in short, what about your stallion and pregnant mares....?)?
         
        12-26-2011, 07:30 PM
      #127
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celeste    
    Also, if in the state of Georgia, if a veterinarian were to kill a horse with a nail or by cutting its throat, they would probably lose their license and serve prison time.
    I don't know why it's being called a nail. It's not a nail. It's a captive bolt. Which is an AVMA accepted form of euthanasia (albeit far preferably when the animal's head is restrained--but people are aware of the problem and the plants are being designed to address it).
         
        12-26-2011, 07:32 PM
      #128
    Trained
    " .....open sores on their sides and pus oozing around their coronary bands from holes inches deep as their hooves rotted from the inside out..... "

    Horses like these are not candidates for slaughter. They would be condemned. They might be shot at the plant, but they are not edible for humans. I do not say this without authority. I worked as a finaling veterinarian at a slaughter plant for horses and hogs. I have had extensive training in meat inspection. You cannot process diseased and dying animals for food.
    bsms likes this.
         
        12-26-2011, 07:35 PM
      #129
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celeste    
    " .....open sores on their sides and pus oozing around their coronary bands from holes inches deep as their hooves rotted from the inside out..... "

    Horses like these are not candidates for slaughter. They would be condemned. They might be shot at the plant, but they are not edible for humans. I do not say this without authority. I worked as a finaling veterinarian at a slaughter plant for horses and hogs. I have had extensive training in meat inspection. You cannot process diseased and dying animals for food.
    They should have been euthanized, rehomed, or as a last resort slaughtered long before they got to that point if the owner was unable or unwilling to care for them. In this case, if the owner had been willing to sell the one gelding privately she would have--but no takers. I begged her to euthanize him when she took me down to see how much he had "improved" and I realized how bad the situation had gotten; he died the following day.
         
        12-26-2011, 07:49 PM
      #130
    Yearling
    None of the Anti-Slaughter advocates have explained why it's ok for a cow or pig to suffer "inhumane" deaths FOR THEIR DINNER TABLE, but it's not ok for a horse to be butchered in the same manner.

    WHY IS IT OK ? Please explain what makes a horse different from the countless bacon slices you've eaten? Are pigs less deserving of your advocacy? And what about battery hens...? Where do your breakfast eggs come from?

    And this is my point...if you still eat meat, or meat you didn't raise yourself, and your meat didn't die of natural causes, you are being hypocritical. Please, as others have said, put your money where your mouth is, AND FIND ANOTHER SOLUTION.
    I do rescue domestic cats and have rescued wildlife...so many people don't give a S#$% about the suffering of animals...and too many others do things like...I don't know, getting slaughter plants shut down, then turning a blind eye to the plight of horses left to DIE in parking lots. Where's your solution? It's one thing to say...oh, regulate, fine, send them to the rescues. But what about when the rescues are full? What about when AC officers turn a blind eye to anything but a dead horse (which I've read in other threads). And while you're complaining about the plight of horses...WHAT ABOUT all the dogs and cats being ABANDONED at kill shelters? Or do we only care that the pretty ponies are being sent to the big bad carnivores' grocery store?

    Seriously.
    Priorities. ...start by not buying from backyard breeders, encourage your friends that no, their ugly mare/stallion does NOT need to have one CUTE baby...or figure out a way to make their deaths humane and cost effective. While you're at it, try not to poison our groundwater...

    /end rant
    NdAppy likes this.
         

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