Why do horse lovers support slaughter? - Page 9 - The Horse Forum
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post #81 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon View Post
So then....why is eating horse meat worse than drinking a cup of ice cold Vitamin D milk?
I'm just wondering what your motivation is here for that statement....
It's not. Just picking and choosing which rules to follow. As stated previously in this thread, half (or more!) of the things you're exposed to on a daily basis--and not just food items--are dangerous ("has been shown to cause tumors in rats in the state of California....").

Not to mention that the toxins in horsemeat are an entirely moot point in the argument against slaughter should stricter testing regulations be put in place. They can't be used as an example against slaughter at large, just slaughter as it currently stands (and such regulations will actually be put into place in the new American plants, so that little problem is already being solved). And it's not "our own people" that are being poisoned. It's the consumers overseas. If they educate themselves on the issue, decide it's not worth the risk, and then boycott, the more power to them! Same as we can, if we wish, boycott the dairy industry or whatever. On the other hand, should they come to the conclusion that the claims of dangers are unsubstantiated, they should be allowed to consume as they choose.

Along that vein, the "dangerous" toxins in horsemeat aren't a new thing. They're a decades-old thing that's just now gaining press due to anti-slaughter legislation. If there was going to be a plague of people dying from drug residues in it, it would have surfaced by now.

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It's difficult to track all Cancers, but as an RN, and having worked 20 plus years with Cancer victims, I'm fairly sure horses fed various wormers and other drugs are NOT safe when ingested.
Because you came across patients who got cancer from eating horses who had been dewormed? How does your experience give you expertise on this subject?

Or this:

Quote:
Responsible horse ownership would be a start.
Yes, that WOULD fix the problem, wouldn't it? Simple solution; why didn't I think of that? Just tell me....how exactly do you go about enforcing that, when we can't even enforce responsible parenting?
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post #82 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 01:56 AM
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It's not. And it's not "our own people" that are being poisoned. It's the consumers overseas.
Well, then it's all good..

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post #83 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
:



Yes, that WOULD fix the problem, wouldn't it? Simple solution; why didn't I think of that? Just tell me....how exactly do you go about enforcing that, when we can't even enforce responsible parenting?
Lobotomies.. :)
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Last edited by Druydess; 12-26-2011 at 02:00 AM.
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post #84 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
It's probably not if we had any real objective study on the matter, though milk, processed in the US is probably the worst thing you can drink. Our kids being poisoned -vs- us being poisoned - ethically a disputable point- equally deadly in the end. My motivation is that slaughter for horses is not looked at in a factual way, just as much of the "approved" diet/foods are also not scrutinized: appropriately, which thereby deadens us as a whole to what drives our markets.
Well profit drives America at the moment...there's not another explanation for the way some of the things have been going except for that. I'm not even going to go through all the political/economic drama but...consider the state of our food industry for example.
There have been studies showing that the current fertilizers are not providing us with the same nutrient load (in fruit if I recall correctly) as older more traditional methods of farming...and we're aware that fertilizer runoffs are causing algae blooms and strangling out the aquatic life. But who cares right? We have plenty of stuff to sell... There are thoughts that the hormone levels in the milk we feed our little girls is igniting puberty earlier and earlier... ...
...but who cares, right? As long as we have milk to sell and money to make.
This is what we have ACCEPTED out of our industries....

As for horse slaughter....it's all well and good to say Bad! Bad horse owners! But let's be honest: there is a degradation in the sense of responsibility that people have for their actions, and people's sense of "responsibility" towards animals is skewed at best. There are a ton of radicals on both sides of this debate (animal rights etc), and unfortunately it's the animals that suffer.

Impede slaughter in the US? Fine...now horse abuse is up and animals are taking a long road to Mexico instead of at least having a better chance of regulation here.

Here's the thing though...why are so many people assuming that they will be seeing chevaline steak or whatever in the grocery store freezer aisle....what about dog food? Honestly the market for Horse in the US is probably somewhat limited, I'm going to go ahead and ASSUME that much of it will be for import...and honestly, if they are creating US JOBS then that's another plus at this point.

Personally? The idea of animals being ABUSED makes me sick, and the states that give a slap on the wrist for extreme cruelty make me want to vomit (Nitro's law in Ohio, for example)...but if an animal can be put down humanely and it's flesh used to feed another being, then some good comes of the situation.

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post #85 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post


Because you came across patients who got cancer from eating horses who had been dewormed? How does your experience give you expertise on this subject?
That's what those links I posted were for...

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post #86 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon View Post
Well profit drives America at the moment...there's not another explanation for the way some of the things have been going except for that. I'm not even going to go through all the political/economic drama but...consider the state of our food industry for example.
There have been studies showing that the current fertilizers are not providing us with the same nutrient load (in fruit if I recall correctly) as older more traditional methods of farming...and we're aware that fertilizer runoffs are causing algae blooms and strangling out the aquatic life. But who cares right? We have plenty of stuff to sell... There are thoughts that the hormone levels in the milk we feed our little girls is igniting puberty earlier and earlier... ...
...but who cares, right? As long as we have milk to sell and money to make.
This is what we have ACCEPTED out of our industries....

As for horse slaughter....it's all well and good to say Bad! Bad horse owners! But let's be honest: there is a degradation in the sense of responsibility that people have for their actions, and people's sense of "responsibility" towards animals is skewed at best. There are a ton of radicals on both sides of this debate (animal rights etc), and unfortunately it's the animals that suffer.

Impede slaughter in the US? Fine...now horse abuse is up and animals are taking a long road to Mexico instead of at least having a better chance of regulation here.

Here's the thing though...why are so many people assuming that they will be seeing chevaline steak or whatever in the grocery store freezer aisle....what about dog food? Honestly the market for Horse in the US is probably somewhat limited, I'm going to go ahead and ASSUME that much of it will be for import...and honestly, if they are creating US JOBS then that's another plus at this point.

Personally? The idea of animals being ABUSED makes me sick, and the states that give a slap on the wrist for extreme cruelty make me want to vomit (Nitro's law in Ohio, for example)...but if an animal can be put down humanely and it's flesh used to feed another being, then some good comes of the situation.
I agree with much of what you say- which was sorta my point. Be wary of what is deemed "acceptable" as the powers-that-be- define that.

As for creating jobs.. hardly worth it.. a few unskilled workers who could care less if the bolt or the bullet hits the mark. And so they die screaming and in pain. There comes a time when we have to stand up and say it's just not ok. If animals abused makes you sick, visit a horse slaughterhouse someday. You'll be vomiting for weeks.
You'll be forever changed.
I was.

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post #87 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:14 AM
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Early puberty in girls is linked to higher risks of breast cancer:

"Girls who consumed more (energy-adjusted) animal protein and less vegetable protein at ages 3–5 years had earlier menarche, and girls aged 1–2 years with higher dietary fat intakes and girls aged 6–8 years with higher animal protein intakes became adolescents with earlier peak growth. Controlling for body size, girls who consumed more calories and animal protein 2 years before peak growth had higher peak growth velocity. These findings may have implications regarding adult diseases whose risks are associated with adolescent growth and development factors" Relation of Childhood Diet and Body Size to Menarche and Adolescent Growth in Girls

Anyway, as for horse meat and cancer...as a nurse, I'm sure you've read all of the newest things that they say will give us cancer. My favorite is the diet soda I used to down by the 12 pack for YEARS which has been shown to cause...some gnarly tumors in rats. Oh...and I've already had a (benign) tumor removed! Now they say plastics and everything else...isn't it great how technology is giving us cancer? ;)

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post #88 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:14 AM
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I did not watch the 10-minute milk video. I read the links, however. The only reference to a specific diease I saw was the possibility of aplastic anemia in children from phenylbutazone. I thought you were implying a link of cancer that you had deduced from your work in nursing, from this quote:

Quote:
It's difficult to track all Cancers, but as an RN, and having worked 20 plus years with Cancer victims, I'm fairly sure horses fed various wormers and other drugs are NOT safe when ingested.
But there is no mention of dewormer or cancers in the article. If you meant something else by your quote, then carry on.
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post #89 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:16 AM
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Druydess, which slaughterhouse did you visit, and when?
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post #90 of 181 Old 12-26-2011, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
If animals abused makes you sick, visit a horse slaughterhouse someday. You'll be vomiting for weeks.
You'll be forever changed.
I was.
Heh, I was a criminal justice major...and now I'm a forensics major. Gotta pick your battles. I've seem the things that people do to eachother, and to animals. If you want nightmares...I can point you at some nightmares. =(

As for animal cruelty...no matter what you do to an animal in some states, you won't get hit with anything higher than a misdemeanor. That was what Nitro's law was about, and last I checked, it had not passed in Ohio. In any case...I don't need a slaughterhouse. Trust me.

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Originally Posted by Jareth, the Goblin King
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