Are you pro-slaughter? POLL - Page 32
 
 

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Are you pro-slaughter? POLL

This is a discussion on Are you pro-slaughter? POLL within the Horse Protection forums, part of the Horse Resources category
  • Is monty roberts pro or anti slaughter

View Poll Results: Are you pro-slaughter
I am pro-slaughter 161 66.53%
I am anti-slaughter 69 28.51%
I don't know yet 12 4.96%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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    02-24-2012, 02:17 AM
  #311
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
So you would sacrifice the freedom of every person in this country so that you could ease your guilt about something you're probably not going to do anyway. You can leave me out of your socialist utopia. I deal with my guilt right along with my freedom. I hate that there are a large group of people that are so mealy-mouthed that they want the government to salve every one of thier problems and pass laws about every thing that offends thier delicate sensibilities. I pray that these kind of people are not the majority in this country yet.

I don't like the way people under the age of 20 dress but I certainly don't want to pass a national dress code.
Freedom is not doing what you want no matter how it effects others. In fact, w/o laws you would have no "freedoms". And, notice our "freedoms" don't include slaughtering unwanted people. Socialism is not ordinarily associated with laws that protect animals, by the way. In fact, communist and "socialist" (ordinarily a disguise for communism) countries are among the greatest animal cruelty offenders.
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    02-24-2012, 02:29 AM
  #312
Trained
Part of freedom is the freedom to make poor choices. If I breed crappy horses and sell them for meat it doesn't directly effect you or your horses. Socialism and communism are about control. The government doesn't much care what they control so long as they get as much as possible. Our freedoms protect us from the slaughtering of unwanted people. As our freedoms are erroded and our constitution is trampled we come closer to the type of government that would alloow the slaughter of "unwanted" people. Cambodia, Russia, China most of South America at one time or another have all fallen prey to progressivism in the name of security.
     
    02-24-2012, 02:50 AM
  #313
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
Part of freedom is the freedom to make poor choices. If I breed crappy horses and sell them for meat it doesn't directly effect you or your horses. Socialism and communism are about control. The government doesn't much care what they control so long as they get as much as possible. Our freedoms protect us from the slaughtering of unwanted people. As our freedoms are erroded and our constitution is trampled we come closer to the type of government that would alloow the slaughter of "unwanted" people. Cambodia, Russia, China most of South America at one time or another have all fallen prey to progressivism in the name of security.
I agree with you IF your poor choice affects you. If you want to do herion, I say...have at it...it is you that will be affected....and if you suffer, the state has no right to take property from anyone to assist you. However, if you want to affect an innocent animal, no - the state has a moral and ethical obligation to step in. If someone in the next state beats their child to near death, it directly affects me and my children none at all....but it should be and is illegal. Furthermore, when the constitution was written, horses were very valuable and not bred willy nilly. Machinery changed that. Machinery can easily make you - dead weight, too. Playing God is not a freedom I can find in the constitution....in fact, it guarantees me freedom from those that want to play God. I simply feel the basic rights should be extended to horses. That hardly makes me socialist, something I have never been accused of in my life. But, hey, there is always a first time.
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    02-24-2012, 07:16 AM
  #314
Weanling
Slaughter is just a symptom of the underlying disease. Curing that "disease" is the only way to rid the symptom.
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    02-24-2012, 07:47 AM
  #315
Green Broke
Unfortunatly that disease is not curable unless you want to kill the patient, therefore you must use pallative care instead.
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    02-24-2012, 08:09 AM
  #316
Weanling
I don't know who the patient is...but ending horse slaughter wouldn't kill me at all. I wouldn't be effected by it. I mean I never have had to take a horse to auction...those services are not needed at this farm. When a horse here has reached it's end I call the vet and have a hole dug at the point and it is put down and buried with dignity. The patients that would die are those that use this as a way to dump the undesireable that went from being an asset to a liability.
     
    02-24-2012, 08:32 AM
  #317
Green Broke
Ending all horse slaughter would kill the entire equine industry, if there is nowhere for unwanted horses to go then we will get horses on street corners starving to death, then there realy will be uproar from the animal rights activists and then no one will be allowed to own horses.
Dangerous horses, horses with serious issues etc people are not going to pay for them to be pts. The 300 needed to have a horse pts by a vet and the the 500 minimum needed for removal (you are not allowed to bury horses here) mean that it costs at least 800 to have a horse disposed of.
800 will feed a family of 4 for 4 months if they are careful. It is 2 months of mortgage payments for a lot of people!

I personaly have taken 1 horse to the meat man and sent anouther to the local hunt.
The one that went to the meat man was out to kill you, it reared, bit, came at you in the field or the stable, put 6 very experianced horse people in hospital for significant amounts of time (shortest being 6 weeks). You couldnt get near the **** thing. We bought it at an auction and it was a beautiful first pony untill the drugs wore off. He was herded onto a horse lorry, unloaded straight into the killing pen and shot. I regained 300 of the 800 I paid for this horse and better I didnt pass this horse on so that it could kill someone.

The one that went to the hunt was an old hunter who had been caught in a stable fire, he became nasty and associated people with pain nd distress. We tried for many years to fix him mentaly but it came to a head one day when he came over a stable door, picked a girl up by the side of her face, pulled her back into the stable and essentialy started savaging her. She lost the sight in her left eye and her ear on the left side she also has horrific scars on the left side of her face.
Now if you managed to get a bridle on this horse without getting killed he turned into something just about handleable but he couldnt be used for anything due to his injuries. He couldnt be turned away in a field as here in the UK fields are not that far from people and he was a danger to anyone who even got remotely close to the field gate (and people will always pet the pretty horses even if you have signs up).
So he went to the hunt yard, he was loaded into a trailer, taken to the hunt yard (where all the hounds where) and as soon as he heard the hounds he got very very excited, obviously thought he was going hunting (that used to be his job and he loved it). One quick humane bullet later he was dead and then he was fed to the hounds. Only cost me the fuel to get to the hunt yard and a very very peaceful end for the horse.

When stan died (found dead in the field) it cost me 500 to have him taken away (I was on a livery yard so not able to bury)

When Rian was PTS at our house it cost 300, we have buried him in the field but have done so totaly illegaly and could face large fines if the council find out.

Not everyone has the facilities or ability to bury a horse and not everyone can afford to plow that sort of money into having a horse PTS when the horse could bring in that little bit more money needed to keep you afloat and able to eat yourself.
     
    02-24-2012, 09:06 AM
  #318
Weanling
Horses don't hit the ground monsters UNLESS they have something happen like being left in the sack to long ect to become oxygen deprived. The horses of which you just described have been either handled poorly or abused into a state of making them "nutso"....humans failed them. The best thing for a vicious horse is either send it to a trainer willing to risk their own life in fixing it or euthanasia...I prefer the latter because I am logical...if it's that bad it should just be put down to protect people. In ALLLLLL the many many horses I have seen or worked with in my life I can not recollect but 1 that would have been considered "Vicious" . They are NOT the norm and there is far to little of them to constitute having slaughter to rid us of them. A bullet or a needle could fix that issue right at home. It is unfortunate that people were harmed by these animals in your above post. Very unfortunate. It seems though the injuries could have been avoided had these animals had responsible owners who put them down as soon as the issues started to arise. As for lack of money in the end to have it put down. A bullet costs about .40 and done correctly can be as pain free and instantaneous as chemical euthanasia. The making a few bucks part bothers me. I mean I have had hard times but I have never resorted to doing things that would harm other beings to make some cash. Some things are worth more to me than money. Knowing I did the right thing by the animal would not only be worth a couple hundred bucks, the sleep I would get at night not thinking about the poor thing being stabbed or chained up or shot numerous times in the head with a bolt gun would also be worth the money.

This just boils down to whats inside of you. What your moral and ethical fiber is. Are you willing to make the sacrifice or do you want others to make it for you. The horses you have did not ask to be yours, you chose them. People should realize that it does take a lot of money to care for them and part of caring for them is preparing for the end of life issues. I do have places to bury them here. I live on a 40 acre farm. If I lived in a place where I couldn't keep horses properly I wouldn't. I know most places here in the US will accept horses at the landfill...here it costs 15.00 to take it there. I like tigers but I shouldn't own one. I have no means by which to properly take care of it. It's called responsibility. Being responsible for YOUR decisions. I have a hard time accepting the fact that these animals are paying for our poor decisions...from bringing them into the world, to neglecting them and abusing them, to turning them into monsters, and in the end it is their head that has the cold barrel of a bolt gun stuck against it....
     
    02-24-2012, 09:42 AM
  #319
Green Broke
My moral and ethical fibre is just fine thanks, I live in the real world where people have to make hard decisions every day. I've made hard decisions and decisions that were best for both the horse and the people around them. The money I got out of sending the horse for slaughter then went back into buying anouther rescue which I wouldnt have been able to do if I had him PTS at home. I also doubt that without the expert handlers from the slaughter plant that we would have been able to have the horse PTS at all as no one was willing to get anywhere near him. I had some of the best trainers of problem horses in the UK to see him I had Richard maxwell, kelly marks and even monty roberts himself (on his UK tour) have a look at the horse and tell me there was no fixing him

Some horses are born nasty, some are just nasty thgouh no fault of the owners. I've known an 8 month old colt that killed sheep and came at people. He was gelded shortly there after and still kept attacking people. He never did come right. I've known a pony that was sweet as anything one minute and the next was a raving lunatic out to do damage with no apparent reason. I've known the homes these ponies were in since birth and both of them are very experianced kind horse people who have raise many many childrens ponies over the years.

Horses cannot go into land fill here, they must be cremated or rendered both of which have costs attached.

You send them to the hunt and its a quiet death the animal then doesnt have to be rendered and it doesnt cost more.

I also personaly think that when there are so many starving people in the world it is moraly wrong to waste good meat.

I wouldnt keep a tiger myself not because I don't have the facilities (I could build them quite easily) but because I moraly object to haveing tigers in private ownership as a status symbol when they are endangered in the wild. I've no problem with breeding programs at zoos but I do have issue with private owners.

BTW I've had horses PTS by captive bolt at home. It does not take multiple hits to kill them and is an extremely humane way to have a horse PTS. The abattoir I worked in used captive bolts as well. Cattle have thicker skulls than horses and is still only took 1 bolt to kill the animal.
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    02-24-2012, 11:53 AM
  #320
Weanling
To each his own. If you can sleep at night that's all that matters. I sleep quite nicely knowing that I have never done this...never will do this...and no matter what happens in my life will never NEED to do this. I will also never breed ANY of our mares. I WILL take care of them for as long as they live and when the time comes I WILL have them put down here at this farm and they will be buried at the point just like the others who we have loved. RESPECTFULLY.

IF there should come a day when I can no longer afford to keep my horses or I physically unable to keep my horses...they will be placed long before the need is in dire emergency BECAUSE I AM RESPONSIBLE. I will NOT wait till the last moment after the horse has dropped several hundred pounds to realize that I can't feed it. I will not wait till it is sick to realize I cannot afford the vet. These are all promises I have made to these animals BEFORE I made the commitment and signed on the dotted line. They give me their all...and I am going to give them mine.
     

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