Are you pro-slaughter? POLL - Page 44 - The Horse Forum

View Poll Results: Are you pro-slaughter
I am pro-slaughter 161 66.53%
I am anti-slaughter 69 28.51%
I don't know yet 12 4.96%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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post #431 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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Okay, Jane Fonda.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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post #432 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by herdbound View Post
'You can learn anything with these three words – observe, remember, and compare. Beyond that, learn to adjust to fit the situation." Tom Dorrance

I admire him as a trainer and a person. This quote is appropriate for working horses and life in general...I think it sums up my stance on this issue.
Would you care to take a guess at what Tom dorrances stance on horse slaughter was? Or Ray Hunts? I know because I asked.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #433 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 12:43 PM
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Cherie...It is very hard for humans to see the world as horses do. Our senses and a horses senses are extremely different. Their sense of smell is amazing. It has been calculated that, if you could spread out the sensory mucous membrane of the horse’s nasal cavity, it would be big enough to cover the entire animal’s body surface. Attempts have been made to assess how many times greater the horse’s sense of smell is than our own, with estimates ranging up to the hundreds of thousands there is no "definite answer to this" but we can with complete safety and surety state that it is many, many, many, times greater than ours. The information provided by the horse’s sense of smell could be expected to be nothing short of fantastic, but the horse takes even this a stage further with its built-in scent analysing laboratory, The Organ of Jacobsen, (Vomeronasal organ). This is also present in some predators such as the lion, but not in people. It is believed that the Vomeronasal organ allows the horse to trap and analyse smells for the presence and identification of pheromones, which are chemical scent communication signals. Horses can detect fear and other emotions of another horse by smelling the hormone-like secretions in sweat and urine known as pheromones. Pheromones also are used as sexual signals.

An example of this is the Flehmen posture:
The lip-curled, nostril-clamped facial expression is called the Flehmen posture, and it enables the horse to better interpret olfactory information. The stallion uses this sense the most, but any horse encountering an unusual or unfamiliar smell may do it. A horse uses smell even before sight in determining what is going on around it. They will check the air to detect even the slightest hint of danger unseen, or coming towards them.

They are constantly using their olfactory sense to make decisions for safeties sake. Sometimes people think a horse is acting up or being disrespectful because it decides NOT to head out a certain way BUT truth be known horses know certain things that we don't because their sense of smell is far superior to our own. They can smell danger they cannot yet see.

Now with that said...I chose to eat a plant based diet to help the horses understand I am not a predator. Being that the first thing a horse will do when meeting someone or something new is smell it & analyze it in ways you and I are uncapable of because we don't even have the organs to do so if we wanted too. They then make a decision on whether this new thing is friend or foe and that has alot to do with what the have "smelled" on the thing. Since they rely so strongly on this sense...I find no reason not to use it to our advantage. I removed meat from my diet that was my choice. I don't go around asking or telling everyone this is the only way to go. I think it personally has helped me alot because I am not triggering a defensive response because of the smell my body is excreting. Just my way of doing things...I don't think it has to be everyones. Horses have been trained for eons by people who smell very much like predators to them and they have had successful results. I just prefer to gain every advantage I can in making the horse feel as comfortable as possible with the things I am going to be doing to if it helps to lessen its fears that I am going to eat it...then yes I will pass on a cheeseburger. I also do not wear perfume. Wash my clothes in unscented laundry detergent and clean my training equipment only when absolutely & positively necessary with only all natural detergents. I am a little fanatical about it...yes. But that sense of smell is their first impression of me and I want to make the best first impression I can.
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post #434 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 01:21 PM
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And your documentation that this is a proven fact???

I think it could just be one more thing that makes real horse people think that animal rights activists are all nuts or terrorists.

Facts and documentation do not figure into their arguments but they try to tell all their lies and suppositions to others like they are facts -- kind of like the documentation I copied that showed that everything about slaughter as told by the Animal Rights activists is false.

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post #435 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 02:10 PM
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I read the article from Dr. Lenz you posted. I could say that a plant that was expecting a visitor may very well have changed the norm of it's practices ESPECIALLY when the findings from such visit were going to be reported to an audience. I like the video's where they catch these people with their pants down...when they are NOT expecting visitors...when their true colors come shining through.

As I stated before this argument will rage on and on and on...I do what I can...thats about all I can do. I have based many of my facts, opinions on the two main "studies" the one from US Congressional Accountability Office of the Cessation of Horse Slaughter AND The Economic Impact Study....these were very broad based studies that covered many years of documented data...they are unbiased but from what I collected from them I chose to say I am anti-slaughter. Anti-suffering.

I have also learned from dealing with pro-slaughter people they are quick to sling the "proverbial mud" at you. Cover you with labels...such as animal rights activist, communists, terrorist, at the mention of certain trigger words...such as compassion, suffering, responsibility...and veer you way off track of the true issues because I have STILL to see any documented study done over a substantial time period that prooves these animals are being treated humanely. What I have found is a multitude of organizations who have placed people in these plants to document via video and audio surveillance that is is very inhumane treatment that these animals receive. Then the pro-slaughter people retort with "I don't care if I can see it, I don't care if I can hear it, I don't care that the same treatment has been video taping for months in two different countries...your a bunch of communistic, looney Peta supporting fanatics so these videos...recordings and evidence are all null and void"
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post #436 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 02:14 PM
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I am not a nut, nor a terrorist. I am a human being who has a very compassionate heart. And I feel that as a human being if I allow myself to be silenced or to be bullied into changing what in my heart I KNOW is wrong...I am just as guilty as the man in the mexican slaughterhouse stabbing at the spinal cord of a horse until FINALLY I hit something important enough for the horse to collapse in paralysis...NOT be butchered ALIVE. To condone this behavior I am just as guilty as he.
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post #437 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 02:24 PM
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Now, now herdbound, you're resorting to stereotypes of pro slaughter people, and yet want the stereotypes to stop about the antis? I really thought you were above that sort of thing.

Regardless of whether you not eating meat, not wearing perfume, and using scent free detergents actually works, you believe doing those things helps you with your rapport with animals. I see nothing wrong with that, even if it's nothing more than anecdotal evidence based on personal feelings.

At least you're trying to live based on your own personal values and courage of your convictions, unlike so many of the antis. Screaming about the 'poor horsies and their hooorrriiibbblllleeee suffering' while stuffing a Big Mac in their faces.

of us, anti, pro, or anti-anti, are against the unnecessary suffering of animals, whether or not they end up as meat. The problem is that we refuse to acknowledge our similarities, but would rather attack each other for our differences. We will never make progress that way, and throwing out insults only muddies the water further.

It's not an all or none concept; there are grey areas, and anyone who is truly concerned about the welfare of animals knows that there are problems with the system. Nobody, pros included, is blind or stupid enough to think that the system couldn't use an overhauling. Will it get done? Not if we as horse owners, antis AND pros, can't come together to show a united front.
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You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!

Last edited by Speed Racer; 03-05-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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post #438 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 02:26 PM
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This is a video done by the news...not some fanatical group...just the news reporting on horse slaughter in canada...

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post #439 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 02:39 PM
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Dr. Grandon who is the leading expert in the world for humane slaughter and who was responsible for auditing these facilities states in that video exactly what I said .... she says when she comes to make a visit everything is always working perfectly...then these videos come out and it makes her angry because the plants are doing everything wrong...why can't they just do it right? Why is that so hard?

There are differences in standards but "wilfull acts of abuse" are not acceptable

She suggests third party video auditing, so that they can be watched at anytime, randomly so these people do what they need to do. I agree 100%
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post #440 of 516 Old 03-05-2012, 02:45 PM
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I won't watch the video b/c it might upset me. Just can't handle it. But, I myself prefer objective tends to lend to the truth.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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