Are you pro-slaughter? POLL - Page 49 - The Horse Forum
View Poll Results: Are you pro-slaughter
I am pro-slaughter 161 66.53%
I am anti-slaughter 69 28.51%
I don't know yet 12 4.96%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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post #481 of 516 Old 03-07-2012, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
stute than ours could ever be. Some study on this might be helpful to you.
As for Natural Horsemanship not being Natural-- tell that to the Native Americans- who have that ability SO unequivocally mastered compared to the rest of us..
Hmm....As a person who lived among the Native Americans at the time of early contact, This artist painted what he SAW. Not too friendly or warm and fuzzy...

Front legs tied together and fought down with a painful rope around his jaw.



Smacking the poo out of them with quirts



So, believe what you will. Today's Indian trainers like "Ponyboy" are just affectations who have little to do with any native American heritage.
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post #482 of 516 Old 03-07-2012, 12:25 AM
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Not to mention that europeans were dependent on horses for about a thousand years before the first indian even thought about sitting astride a horse. My own family probably has a longer history with horses than ANY indian.
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There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #483 of 516 Old 03-07-2012, 12:34 AM
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For the record I am not GuWaNi Pony Boys biggest fan. The NA's have about as much to do with horse slaughter as the Pope in my opinion. We are way off track and there are two things you shouldn't discuss with strangers...religion & politics. So as far as what I have been taught and believe to be true I must honor...same as you.
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post #484 of 516 Old 03-07-2012, 01:04 AM
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LOL SH, as soon as I saw you had replied I said "I know she said AMEN!"..

You know me way too well Drum! LOL

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #485 of 516 Old 03-08-2012, 03:08 AM
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Druydess is that a "Dead Cow" on you horse's head.

Did you find concrete proof that Cordovan leather is exclusively from foals? Also I do believe eating some animal proteins is part of the human make-up as we need vitamin B-12, for our health but cannot get enough naturally without artificial supplementation. Obtaining protien/b-12 from eggs or fish is the way some vegetarians go, as that would be a natural "Human" diet. I believe we are omnivorous beings. I had a Chinese doctor who once said; Humans should not eat any animal protien, from an animal that is larger than themselves. He had good reason for this, and for me it has worked. So eggs, small mammals, birds, seafood.

You could post a video of any slaughterhouse and it would be disturbing to watch, as part of my post secondary agriculture training, we visited some packing houses, it's enough to make you stop eating meat.

As for the First Nations persons being Natural Horsemen, they ate and wore animals so I guess their horses like my horses didn't care, as long as they had a treat in their loin cloths! The statement Natural Horsemanship is an Oxymoron like Herdbound said, "Does not exist"
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post #486 of 516 Old 03-08-2012, 12:34 PM
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Druydess is that a "Dead Cow" on you horse's head.


You could post a video of any slaughterhouse and it would be disturbing to watch, as part of my post secondary agriculture training, we visited some packing houses, it's enough to make you stop eating meat.
The execution of a mass-murderer that deserves to be eliminated... is difficult for most to watch. When in innocent person is beheaded with a dull blade and takes 20 whacks, it is beyond disturbing.

It is a question of "humane slaughter" - if it is going to be practiced. I am for its return to the US for the purpose of regulation enforcement...not b/c I am for any and all slaughter, but b/c it is a matter of what "can be done" at the moment, and time is of the essence.

People have their own philosophies on just about everything. Lets celebrate their freedom to do so. The matter at hand is horse slaughter.
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There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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post #487 of 516 Old 03-08-2012, 03:05 PM
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Cordovan Leather is made from equine skins...you can google it and find that information on your own. Foals skins are used because they are very supple and they are easy to come by from these nurse mares...thats a whole other can of worms. I lump the promarin mares in with them though as I find this one of those "iffy" breeding/cruelty/abuse/neglect scenarios I find ethically wrong...BUT anyways as I said that's a whole other can of worms...

I have a very balanced diet. I do eat alot of eggs. I am very aware of the B-12 issue and my eggs do not come from the grocery store :) They come from a hen house out back....thank you for your concerns though...I am very healthy.

As for NA's again ...I will say this...I am offended by horse slaughter - find it utterly disgusting...BUT I am also offended by the way the NA nations are treated and the way they have been forced to live in absolute poverty themselves. The injustice done to them, the housing and employment situations, the outrageously high suicide rates on the reservations bother me just about as much as the injustice done to the horses. Pine Ridge in South Dakota is a great example of this...again want more info google it....

For me at least when I approach this I just approach it from a standpoint that human beings basicly suck. They have a history of finding things weaker, helpless and defenseless and make them completely dependant on them and instead of choosing to be compassionate & humane, they prove they are worthy of trust from the weaker entity, then they often betray them in the most hideous and gruesome way they can.. I don't want to be a person like that...be it a foal, a person of a different ethnicity, or a horse that has just had a series of misfortunate events and has lost it's place in this world. I want to treat people, animals, and everything in between with compassion. I find it very strange that when you do this you are attacked. Is it considered weakness? Is it true that as human beings we must bully, take over and exploit our way to the top? If that's what it means to be at the top then screw it for me...I don't want it. My philosophy in life, with my kids, with the horses, just with everything in general can be summed up in a little quote..."When in doubt choose to be kind. Being kind is never the wrong thing to do."
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Last edited by herdbound; 03-08-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: typo
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post #488 of 516 Old 03-08-2012, 09:28 PM
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I am too a decendant of Native American culture Cherokee & Blackfoot. And I have to disagree 100% with everything you just said. It is our belief that we are but a thread in the web of life. I am no more important than you, you are no more important than the buffalo, the buffalo no more important than the horse. Each being created by Great Spirit to serve its own "magical purpose". Every life...great or small...was significant. If an animal gave it's life for food a prayer of thanks was offered up to the Great Spirit in reverence for the animal giving up that life. Even being careful were you walked as not to crush the grass with your feet out of respect...not to move a stone from one place to another. The entire essence of Native American philosophy is respect and reverence for the world around us and ALL life is sacred.

"When we Indians kill meat, we eat it all up. When we dig roots, we make little holes. When we build houses, we make little holes. When we burn grass for grasshoppers, we don't ruin things. We shake down acorns and pine nuts. We don't chop down the trees. We only use dead wood. But the white people plow up the ground, pull down the trees, kill everything. ... the White people pay no attention. ...How can the spirit of the earth like the White man? ... everywhere the White man has touched it, it is sore." Wintu Woman


Wovoka, Paiute


"You ask me to plow the ground. Shall I take a knife and tear my mother's bosom? Then when I die she will not take me to her bosom to rest. "You ask me to dig for stones! Shall I dig under her skin for bones? Then when I die I cannot enter her body to be born again.
"You ask me to cut grass and make hay and sell it and be rich like white men, but how dare I cut my mother's hair?
"I want my people to stay with me here. All the dead men will come to life again. Their spirits will come to their bodies again. We must wait here in the homes of our fathers and be ready to meet them in the bosom of our mother."
Thank you Herdbound-- this exactly illustrates the difference in the many tribes I alluded to earlier..
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post #489 of 516 Old 03-08-2012, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Hmm....As a person who lived among the Native Americans at the time of early contact, This artist painted what he SAW. Not too friendly or warm and fuzzy...

Front legs tied together and fought down with a painful rope around his jaw.



Smacking the poo out of them with quirts



So, believe what you will. Today's Indian trainers like "Ponyboy" are just affectations who have little to do with any native American heritage.
Again- ONE tribe in thousands.. not all were warm and fuzzy- obviously..

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
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post #490 of 516 Old 03-08-2012, 10:45 PM
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I just want to point out to that these are artistic renditions and quite honestly they were probably painted during a period in history where Native Americans were being portrayed as "heathen savages"...and they may be a figment of the artists imagination from tales of these horrid primitive people being told from the lips of people who were responsible for the destruction, round up, and transplantation of these mighty nations of people. I think that is why I was offended by the posts referring to NA's earlier...I don't like when they are portrayed like that if you have any idea of the fundamentals of their spirituality and their respect for Great Spirit or Wankan Tanka and all the creation they feel are a gift...you wouldn't say those things...
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