Attempt at Leg Yield, Circle, Trot Critique
   

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Attempt at Leg Yield, Circle, Trot Critique

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    01-25-2012, 10:12 AM
  #1
Showing
Attempt at Leg Yield, Circle, Trot Critique

I had a lesson on the 24th of January and my mom took quite a lot of movies for me.
I was going to make one huge movie, but I figure that would bore everyone to tears, so I'm going to put up all videos for critique and you can pick and choose which ones to watch.

I want to hear everything.. even if it's obvious!

The first is literally a 3 second video of my horse and I am trying leg yielding (really close, sorry) off the rail at a walk, to the rail.


Attempts at Leg yields at the walk, with a change of rein (half circle) at the beginning



More Leg yielding at the walk


Leg yield.. circle and change of rein at the walk


More leg yields at the walk (see how monotonous?)


Trotting {Posting}!!!! And Trotting leg yields


Trotting posting and circles. Change of rein across midline


Trotting posting and leg yields


Trotting posting and then sitting, circles, leg yields are sneaked in somewhere..


If you're still with me, and your eyes have dried, please feel free to critique!

Thanks
     
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    01-25-2012, 02:26 PM
  #2
Weanling
I think you guys look very nice!

I saw chicken wings a bit - try to keep the tumbs on top.

I really like that you reward your horse (sadly, I don't see it that often.) I make a concious effort to reward with my inside hand only, so that I can keep outside contact at all times.

You seem to really enjoy your time in the saddle! Keep up with the work, it pays off! =)
     
    01-25-2012, 02:59 PM
  #3
Showing
Thanks Shasta!

That's a good idea. I don't mean to pat him that roughly I was just really happy haha. I also scratch his wither mid trot or mid walk to reward.

Okay, I'll loose the chicken wings!
     
    01-25-2012, 03:35 PM
  #4
Super Moderator
Was that all in one lesson? That's a lot of leg yielding in one lesson. Did you mix that up with some changes of gait, some letting him walk on a loose rein, riding on the buckle?

I think that you have some real natural talent in riding and seem to catch on very quickly. YOu have good side to side balance and don't collapse to one side , as so many people do (raises hand to be counted). You do get the chicken wings and as time went on you started haveing more and more of a downward can't to your hands and upper body which encourages the horse to run more and more on his forehand. But then last video he was really draggin his feet in the sand and starting to plow onto his forehand.

I think that is in large part to wearing the training fork. I would be out of that as soon as possible. Sky seems worried a bit as to where to keep his head and he loses focus and impulsion from his hind by being too focussed on his head.

I would break up the leg yield work with somthing that demands pure , energetic forward, because the horse will dull out otherwise. The leg yeild will deaden, so you must refressh "forward!" frequently.

I think you might, just might , consider lowering your stirrup one hole. I might be wrong on that, but you have your ankle and foot kind of jammed down and foot angled out in a way that is more fitting for hunter/jumper style riding.

Lastly, do you ever do work without stirrups in lessons?

Just me being blunt, as usual.

CAroline
     
    01-25-2012, 03:51 PM
  #5
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
Was that all in one lesson? That's a lot of leg yielding in one lesson. Did you mix that up with some changes of gait, some letting him walk on a loose rein, riding on the buckle?

I think that you have some real natural talent in riding and seem to catch on very quickly. YOu have good side to side balance and don't collapse to one side , as so many people do (raises hand to be counted). You do get the chicken wings and as time went on you started haveing more and more of a downward can't to your hands and upper body which encourages the horse to run more and more on his forehand. But then last video he was really draggin his feet in the sand and starting to plow onto his forehand.

I think that is in large part to wearing the training fork. I would be out of that as soon as possible. Sky seems worried a bit as to where to keep his head and he loses focus and impulsion from his hind by being too focussed on his head.

I would break up the leg yield work with somthing that demands pure , energetic forward, because the horse will dull out otherwise. The leg yeild will deaden, so you must refressh "forward!" frequently.

I think you might, just might , consider lowering your stirrup one hole. I might be wrong on that, but you have your ankle and foot kind of jammed down and foot angled out in a way that is more fitting for hunter/jumper style riding.

Lastly, do you ever do work without stirrups in lessons?

Just me being blunt, as usual.

CAroline
Caroline I always always look forward to critiques from you!!

Yes, this is one lesson. 30 minutes long so there's a good deal missing.

I agree about the training fork. I'm a bad student and ride without it during the week, then slap it on for lessons hehe.. but no my trainer insists Sky needs it. But I've been working on him without it EVEN the canter (the 1st time I did it without help), and he was great!

I agree that it was a loooot of leg yields and it was frying me and Sky. I even complained that it was very hard without impulsion. So as soon as we went trotting, which he was SO happy about, and did leg yields he was wonderful. Nothing against my trainer, I adore her, but she really pounds!

I snatched up any moment to ride on the buckle but my trainer really really wants us round and engaged the whole time. In my own time, we take breaks often and he gets a nice loose rein or "no hand" rein at the walk and trot.

I agree about dropping a hole, I'm going to try and see if it will help me keep my right stirrup better. I also noticed my legs kept creeping up out of position.

Noooo no no, have never tried no stirrup work on Sky. I've considered riding with one stirrup (my left) and letting my right foot be free, but I don't know if that's safe. I do no stirrup walking but anything beyond that, my seat isn't secure enough I'd freak him out since I swear he is the horsey equivalent of a perfectionist..

It would help if I could go stirrupless on the lungeline with an oh-sh strap just incase. I'm trying to make one with what I've got on hand. Course I have no problem buying one.

Hope I answered all the questions you have!
     
    01-25-2012, 04:27 PM
  #6
Super Moderator
I think you underestimate your seat. You would do just fine stirrupless at all the work you did today, I kid you not. Most beginners flail around a lot more. So, maybe you aren't a beginner. I forgot the amount of experience in your background.

I used to fight with my first teacher a lot, but I now know that hte way she put the horse first was best. I always had to give him long walks on the buckle from time to time , and this was a thorougnbred who could spook at any unexpected moment (who dumped me twice off the lungline) but I still had to let him walk on the buckle after he'd performed well.

My teacher , when teaching me leg yield, had me think of it as one step sideways and one step forward, one sideways, one forward. I think this was because I got overly focussed on the sideways and lost the forward impulsion.
She also really stressed putting my inside leg on at the exact time as when he was stepping under with his inside hind.
WE did a lot of work where I had to walk or trot and count out loud the inside hinds movement. Like , "left, left, left , left" every time the left hind stepped under and "right, right, right" for the other so I would learn to feel the hind feet, and thus be able to feel the time to apply the inside leg.

YOu did exceptionally well with maintaining a nicely vertical seat and didn't twist yourself all up in trying to force the horse over, which is something I STILL end up doing.

Phillipe Karl talks about the seat bones usage in lateral movement. IN his book, "Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage" he talks about how many trainers say weight on the inside seatbone, but he says you should always weight the seatbone in the direction that the horse is moving, so in this case , it;s to the outside of the horse 's bend. Leg yield to the left, horse is bent to right, moving toward left and according to Karl, you should weight your left seatbone.
     
    01-25-2012, 05:13 PM
  #7
Showing
You think so? Should I try w/t stirrupless?

I'm just worried that Sky's head will go flying up and that'll hollow his back and I'll start bouncing.. and then he'll start spooking, and then I'll try to relax but the spooking makes it worse.. do you see where I'm going? =/

I know he needs to get over it, just finding the right time. I was hoping that I could get my sitting trot down because then I could not rely on my stirrups.

That makes sense, putting the weight to the direction you're moving in. To me, putting the weight on the inside would be like closing the door.. it'd make it more difficult for your horse to move and also may encourage leaning right?

As for my experience.. it's very weird. I started age 7/8, rode for a few years at an English barn. Walk, trot, starting to jump around age 10. It was scary and the horse never jumped, we just trotted over. Then I moved... lost touch of horses till I was 12, when we moved again and I started western. Did some walking, jogging bareback on a mule (lol) and started walking the barrel pattern. Stopped going since instructor wanted me to lease a horse and mom didn't want to. Then I started volunteering at a therapeutic riding center. Over time I got some riding time. Started riding a greenie, then I was being taught how to train her. We did a lot of bareback w/t. Then I was given Sky.. took some more lessons. W/t, mainly stirrupless and bridless on a lungeline. Then I moved here and have been taking lessons with my current trainer since October.

So collectively, age 8-10 (3) plus age 12-15 (3) plus 2.5 years recently, slightly over 8 years. But I don't count it as 8 years. More like 2 years with some change, since it wasn't consistent and I wasn't taught anything except to sit and look pretty. Push button, sit and hang on. I didn't know how leg, seat, I knew about hands and stirrups. Cluck to make the horse go, pull to make the horse stop.

So I consider myself an advanced beginner (advanced now that I'm cantering.) Is that a fair assessment? :/

Given me lots to think about. I'm out Friday, Sat, and Sun to the barn so I'll give it a whirl.
     
    01-25-2012, 06:41 PM
  #8
Trained
I didn't watch all of them, and didn't watch them in their entirety however from what I did see, Tiny has already pointed out most of the riding critiques, so I will focus on the quality of leg yield.

The horse is not actually leg yielding in any of the video that I watched. In leg yield, the inside fore must cross in front of the outside fore, and the inside hind must cross in front of the outside hind. This is much easier in sitting trot than walk.
The horse's body including the neck, must remain straight and parallel to the track, with a touch of flexion to the inside (flexion being from the poll, not the neck or body).
Skye, is walking directly back to and away from the track, with little if any crossing of the legs and is bulging through his outside shoulder and over bending the neck to the inside. This tells me that you do not have control of the outside of the horse's body.
To combat this, instead of riding full leg yields, try to ride 2 or 3 steps, then ride straight again, get the shoulder back under control, then quietly ask for another couple of strides. The second you lose his shoulder, ride straight and correct it. This will make your leg yields much straighter.

When changing direction in your leg yield, try to avoid pushing straight back to other way. Instead, ride a step or 2 straight, establish the new outside rein, and THEN yield back to the track. Otherwise you are putting the horse out of balance.

You have a lovely secure seat, your horse looks happy, relaxed and has a good rhythm. It's time to start being more of the driver rather than the passenger, moving from your learner's license to your provisional license, if you will.
I would like to see you asking the trot to be a little more active, which will require you to relax your leg rather than brace against the stirrup, to give effective aids.
When the trot is more active, the quality of the movements you ride will improve, the straightness will improve, the ability to establish a connection from the hind legs to the bridle will improve etc.

Good job :)
tinyliny likes this.
     
    01-25-2012, 07:00 PM
  #9
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
You think so? Should I try w/t stirrupless?

Yes, you will be fine. It's time and it will feel so good.


So collectively, age 8-10 (3) plus age 12-15 (3) plus 2.5 years recently, slightly over 8 years. But I don't count it as 8 years. More like 2 years with some change, since it wasn't consistent and I wasn't taught anything except to sit and look pretty. Push button, sit and hang on. I didn't know how leg, seat, I knew about hands and stirrups. Cluck to make the horse go, pull to make the horse stop.

So I consider myself an advanced beginner (advanced now that I'm cantering.) Is that a fair assessment? :/

yes, that is a good assessment.

Given me lots to think about. I'm out Friday, Sat, and Sun to the barn so I'll give it a whirl.
I look forward to your next post. It's like I am there. I enjoyed hearing the birds in the background. We dont' have birdsong now, 'cause it's winter.


Kayty's description is spot on! And so nicely worded.
Skyseternalangel likes this.
     
    01-25-2012, 07:13 PM
  #10
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty    
The horse is not actually leg yielding in any of the video that I watched. In leg yield, the inside fore must cross in front of the outside fore, and the inside hind must cross in front of the outside hind. This is much easier in sitting trot than walk.
The horse's body including the neck, must remain straight and parallel to the track, with a touch of flexion to the inside (flexion being from the poll, not the neck or body).
Skye, is walking directly back to and away from the track, with little if any crossing of the legs and is bulging through his outside shoulder and over bending the neck to the inside. This tells me that you do not have control of the outside of the horse's body.
To combat this, instead of riding full leg yields, try to ride 2 or 3 steps, then ride straight again, get the shoulder back under control, then quietly ask for another couple of strides. The second you lose his shoulder, ride straight and correct it. This will make your leg yields much straighter.

When changing direction in your leg yield, try to avoid pushing straight back to other way. Instead, ride a step or 2 straight, establish the new outside rein, and THEN yield back to the track. Otherwise you are putting the horse out of balance.

You have a lovely secure seat, your horse looks happy, relaxed and has a good rhythm. It's time to start being more of the driver rather than the passenger, moving from your learner's license to your provisional license, if you will.
I would like to see you asking the trot to be a little more active, which will require you to relax your leg rather than brace against the stirrup, to give effective aids.
When the trot is more active, the quality of the movements you ride will improve, the straightness will improve, the ability to establish a connection from the hind legs to the bridle will improve etc.

Good job :)
Thank you so much Kayty for taking the time to give me advice! I am going to work and keep in mind the bold when I try the leg yield again!

I am going to definitely try kicking it up a notch. The worst that can happen doesn't outweigh the benefits so I'm going to give it a shot!

Thank you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
I look forward to your next post. It's like I am there. I enjoyed hearing the birds in the background. We dont' have birdsong now, 'cause it's winter.
Thanks again tinyliny.. you're always such a huge help!
Kayty likes this.
     

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