Denny, 02.21.09
 
 

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Denny, 02.21.09

This is a discussion on Denny, 02.21.09 within the Horse Riding Critique forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        02-22-2009, 01:38 PM
      #1
    Showing
    Denny, 02.21.09

    Kelly (CacheDawnTaxes) took these amazing photos... I would love a horse/rider critique









    I see:
    - thumbs on top (grrrr)
    - hands held higher (more elbow bend)
    - Denny needs to go long and low (is breaking at 3rd vertebrae and sucking back a tad)

    (in some pics I am in a halfish seat to let him move through the snow easier)


         
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        02-22-2009, 02:08 PM
      #2
    Foal
    He's moving out really nicely!
         
        02-22-2009, 03:18 PM
      #3
    Trained
    I see allot of stiff inside rein. You are not giving what-so-ever with your inside rein at all, you aren't rewarding him or aiding him to carry and support himself when you hold that inside rein so much.

    The outside rein is where most of the function comes from. The outside rein aids in the controll of tempo, speed. It keeps the outside shoulder under your horse, and it is your turning rein as well.

    You must learn to drive inside leg, into outside rein - so that your horse can learn to carry himself.

    Too much inside rein, creates a stiff, on the muscle horse - with no release from his rider.

    The moment he gives to you, you must give back.

    I also see your leather way too long. You reach for your toe often and you are gripping your knees in response. Your leathers should be at the correct length to give you a strong base of security in your tack. Your leathe should be at the correct length, whether doing dressage or jumping - so that your knees don't have to be the part of your body you rely on for comfort. Your heels must beable to do their job...always.

    When your leathe are too long, you search for other avenues for security. Knees, toes.

    Also, your seat isn't being permitted to do its job when you have to reach for your toes.

    I also see too much head tilt to the inside, again - way to much inside rein. He should be on the outside rein. When he has to carry his head to the inside, or to the outside - a shoulder ends up popping. Here, his outside shoulder is popping.

    You never ask for a bend or turn with your inside rein. You use your inside leg, your seat bone and outside rein.

    He is on the forehand, but with more function with your lower leg, and proper hand carraige, you can learn to lift him up and into you.
         
        02-22-2009, 10:35 PM
      #4
    Trained
    I've looked at these pictures and the ones in the other thread and there is one major common denominator in all of the pictures. He is moving downhill with a tucked in nose and tense frame. You are also perched.
    The reason for all of this is your hands. They are pulling constantly in there is never relief for your horse's mouth. Notice how his lips are completely dry, there is not even a hint of the line of white foam we want.
    There are minor position flaws that are completely secondary to your hands. Get off your horse's face and he will thank you for releasing the death grip. Put your hands on your saddle, or put a bucking strap onto it and hold onto that with your reins, but basically just stop pulling. Your horse's head/neck is like 175 pounds, you aren't going to hold it up, and if he ever decides he's sick of you hauling on him then off you go over his shoulders.
    It is a really really bad habit to pull all the time and it's going to be tough to break but overall it's really going to help your riding, which is otherwise good.
         
        02-22-2009, 10:45 PM
      #5
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MIEventer    
    I see allot of stiff inside rein. You are not giving what-so-ever with your inside rein at all, you aren't rewarding him or aiding him to carry and support himself when you hold that inside rein so much.

    The outside rein is where most of the function comes from. The outside rein aids in the controll of tempo, speed. It keeps the outside shoulder under your horse, and it is your turning rein as well.

    You must learn to drive inside leg, into outside rein - so that your horse can learn to carry himself.

    Too much inside rein, creates a stiff, on the muscle horse - with no release from his rider.

    The moment he gives to you, you must give back.

    I also see your leather way too long. You reach for your toe often and you are gripping your knees in response. Your leathers should be at the correct length to give you a strong base of security in your tack. Your leathe should be at the correct length, whether doing dressage or jumping - so that your knees don't have to be the part of your body you rely on for comfort. Your heels must beable to do their job...always.

    When your leathe are too long, you search for other avenues for security. Knees, toes.

    Also, your seat isn't being permitted to do its job when you have to reach for your toes.

    I also see too much head tilt to the inside, again - way to much inside rein. He should be on the outside rein. When he has to carry his head to the inside, or to the outside - a shoulder ends up popping. Here, his outside shoulder is popping.

    You never ask for a bend or turn with your inside rein. You use your inside leg, your seat bone and outside rein.

    He is on the forehand, but with more function with your lower leg, and proper hand carraige, you can learn to lift him up and into you.
    Please note that Denny has only been off the track since September, and in that time has been on stall rest for 3 months.
    Also we weren't focusing much on schooling at that particular moment.. haha
    I am really having a hard time seeing what you've posted about.. being too heavy on the inside rein. Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I see contact, but not too much or too little.
    Not to say I wouldn't like to see him working longer and lower.
    Denny was a little.. okay, very forward yesterday.. I'm surprised at the pictures actually... I would have thought they would have come out a lot different.
    I have also probably been taught slightly differently than you regarding the inside rein :)
    More than one way to skin a cat :)
    Perhaps I am completely missing some of these things... and I thank you for the critique... but I don't see a lot of what you've posted...
    I do not see him popping his shoulder in any of the pictures, nor tilting his nose funny... if you could point out which pictures you're referring to that would be great
         
        02-22-2009, 10:54 PM
      #6
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
    I've looked at these pictures and the ones in the other thread and there is one major common denominator in all of the pictures. He is moving downhill with a tucked in nose and tense frame. You are also perched.
    The reason for all of this is your hands. They are pulling constantly in there is never relief for your horse's mouth. Notice how his lips are completely dry, there is not even a hint of the line of white foam we want.
    There are minor position flaws that are completely secondary to your hands. Get off your horse's face and he will thank you for releasing the death grip. Put your hands on your saddle, or put a bucking strap onto it and hold onto that with your reins, but basically just stop pulling. Your horse's head/neck is like 175 pounds, you aren't going to hold it up, and if he ever decides he's sick of you hauling on him then off you go over his shoulders.
    It is a really really bad habit to pull all the time and it's going to be tough to break but overall it's really going to help your riding, which is otherwise good.
    I really am failing to see the whole "death grip" thing. I have never had hard hands; what I have in those photos is "contact" not "pulling." I move my hands with my horse, and do not have a constant heavy hand on him.
    As for his lips... out of the 4 horses that I have personally owned, only one has ever produced foamy saliva. Not producing foamy saliva does not mean that the horse's mouth is constantly pulled at.
    In addition, I rode him yesterday for a grand total of 5 minutes.
    Regarding the "perching"... I was trying to stay off his back so he could really use it to get through the snow. More of a half seat.

    If I honestly saw my faults in these pictures, of course I would own up to them.. but I don't... at all.
         
        02-22-2009, 11:00 PM
      #7
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
    I really am failing to see the whole "death grip" thing. I have never had hard hands; what I have in those photos is "contact" not "pulling." I move my hands with my horse, and do not have a constant heavy hand on him.
    As for his lips... out of the 4 horses that I have personally owned, only one has ever produced foamy saliva. Not producing foamy saliva does not mean that the horse's mouth is constantly pulled at.
    In addition, I rode him yesterday for a grand total of 5 minutes.

    If I honestly saw my faults in these pictures, of course I would own up to them.. but I don't... at all.
    First of all, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you want to hear about buns and roses and butterflies, there is a pictures section.
    Second, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you do not want my opinion and the opinions of others about your riding, then there is a pictures section.
    Third, just because the 4 horses that you have owned and ridden have not given a good wet mouth does not mean that it is not good and correct. It is a very biased sample because you have probably pulled on all of them.
    Finally, you are pulling. The first stage is acceptance.

    That is all :)
         
        02-22-2009, 11:06 PM
      #8
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
    First of all, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you want to hear about buns and roses and butterflies, there is a pictures section.
    Second, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you do not want my opinion and the opinions of others about your riding, then there is a pictures section.
    Third, just because the 4 horses that you have owned and ridden have not given a good wet mouth does not mean that it is not good and correct. It is a very biased sample because you have probably pulled on all of them.
    Finally, you are pulling. The first stage is acceptance.

    That is all :)
    Not all horses produce white foamy saliva. Just because a horse doesn't isn't incorrect. That is very linear thinking on your part, because you have been taught that foam=good, when in fact it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
    I have never once had a comment about my hands being hard, or pulling. What I have is contact.
    You are MORE than welcome to critique, but as it is stated in the rules, how about trying the whole "constructive" part of it?
    I am not looking for rainbows and bunnies, but I do know my riding and am confident that I do not lean on my horse's face.
         
        02-22-2009, 11:13 PM
      #9
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
    Not all horses produce white foamy saliva. Just because a horse doesn't isn't incorrect. That is very linear thinking on your part, because you have been taught that foam=good, when in fact it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
    I have never once had a comment about my hands being hard, or pulling. What I have is contact.
    You are MORE than welcome to critique, but as it is stated in the rules, how about trying the whole "constructive" part of it?
    I am not looking for rainbows and bunnies, but I do know my riding and am confident that I do not lean on my horse's face.
    Not all horses produce foam. But the vast majority of them do once they loosen their jaw, since there is a saliva duct behind the throat. In terms of general statements, foam=good, because it shows that the jaw is relaxed. No foam=bad, because it shows a tense horse with a tense jaw. Now those are just blanket statements, because there's an exception to every rule and an exception to every exception, but generally speaking, its one of the first things you look for if you're looking at a supple horse
         
        02-22-2009, 11:15 PM
      #10
    Showing
    Fair enough, Skyhuntress. But the allegation that my hard hands created his lack of foam is a little ludacrous, especially considering that I rode him for all of... 5 minutes, tops.

    ETA - when I think back on it... most people that see me ride comment on how soft my hands are.. hm.
         

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