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Dressage Potential?

This is a discussion on Dressage Potential? within the Horse Riding Critique forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • What percentage of horses do dressage
  • Why is being built downhill in dressage bad?

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    04-07-2012, 10:53 AM
  #21
Foal
Gorgeous boy, his longer back might impede him being a dressage star as others have said but that's no reason not to give it a try. 16 isn't old in my book if he's sound and you keep him fit, don't be discouraged and go for it!
     
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    04-07-2012, 11:53 AM
  #22
Green Broke
Agreed. ANY horse should be able to do Dressage half decently up to 2nd Level with some work. You may not get the best marks, you may not beat Warmbloods, but certainly any horse should be able to do those movements and I totally agree that if their flaws are so severe that they can't, they probably shouldn't be ridden. My coach firmly believes that any horse can do up to 2nd Level with some work, and place fairly consistently.

It's like saying my horse can't jump. EVERY horse can jump, some just do it better then others. Based on your purchasing a 16 year old Morgan and your goal being 2nd Level, it really doesn't sound like you're chasing ribbons or victory. You may not beat everyone at 2nd Level, but certainly the journey will be fun and very good for your horses discipline! 16 is young - he looks in perfect health, and should easily have another 10 years in him - at least.

The Dressage coach I used to train under trained an Arab that was completely unsuited to Dressage - somewhat downhill built, and with the weaker hind end, he REALLY struggled to get underneath himself. But he was a client's horse and she wanted big things, and she got to 3rd Level with him AND they placed. Granted, she's the best Dressage coach we have in the province, but it shows that with the proper guidance, virtually any horse CAN get there in the lower levels.

Best of luck - he is absolutely STUNNING and looks very willing.
     
    04-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #23
Weanling
Sorry, the word happy is wrong. I blame my bad english, I mess up sometimes.

What I meant was, the horse don't struggle with the movements so that it suffer.
It's hard for the horse, but I like to think that horses like a challenge.

And it's not canter pirouettes. The rider is simply collection the canter on a small circle.

It's a show, and the horse tries to show off a little bit more than it's ready for at the moment, the horse gets a bit unbalanced - causing it to look uneven.
I know who the owner is, and the horse was fine. (About the tail, look at grand prix horses. Some horses just swish their tail even if there's nothing wrong with it.)
     
    04-07-2012, 02:14 PM
  #24
Trained
Actually Stella, a lot of grand prix horses are not using themselves correctly. Modern dressage has strayed a long way from the ideals of yesteryear. Of course there are those of us who take the time and do it all correctly (your pony wouldn't work the way she does if YOU hadn't done it right), but so many, many grand prix horses are not working correctly with their hocks and hindquarters properly engaged. A lot of them have a four-beat trot and canter. And a lot of them are very stressed.

Did you know a study was done on horses and stereotypic behaviours like vices? And the study was looking at which discipline had the highest number of horses with a particular vice? I think the one they were looking at in particular was cribbing or windsucking. And they found that a very high percentage of upper-level dressage horses display behaviours related to the vices. A horse that windsucks either has ulcers, is incredibly bored, or is stressed.

I'm not saying dressage is bad. It's not, it's GOOD when it's done right. Unfortunately the art of good dressage seems to be less and less common, and seems to be getting less and less competitive against the flashy front-leg-movers that look so impressive but aren't doing much with their back ends.

Just look at the piaffe. The vast majority of grand prix dressage horses do not perform it in the correct manner, sitting back on their hocks and with good cadence and rhythm. Collection is where the training issues really come out. Any horse can trot on the spot (Mum had a downhill QH that could), but it takes real correct training to get a true piaffe.

But this thread is not the place for a debate about the whys and wherefores of the top levels of dressage, and as a rider, I'm not qualified to really comment, as I do not enjoy riding dressage. I do watch a lot of it, so as a spectator and a critic, I can speak of uncomfortable-looking horses that are not performing the movements correctly, but as a rider, I can't say I could do any better.

I would start a thread, but it's late, and I'm not the most qualified person in this thread to start such a discussion.
     
    04-07-2012, 02:17 PM
  #25
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
Actually Stella, a lot of grand prix horses are not using themselves correctly. Modern dressage has strayed a long way from the ideals of yesteryear. Of course there are those of us who take the time and do it all correctly (your pony wouldn't work the way she does if YOU hadn't done it right), but so many, many grand prix horses are not working correctly with their hocks and hindquarters properly engaged. A lot of them have a four-beat trot and canter. And a lot of them are very stressed.

Did you know a study was done on horses and stereotypic behaviours like vices? And the study was looking at which discipline had the highest number of horses with a particular vice? I think the one they were looking at in particular was cribbing or windsucking. And they found that a very high percentage of upper-level dressage horses display behaviours related to the vices. A horse that windsucks either has ulcers, is incredibly bored, or is stressed.

I'm not saying dressage is bad. It's not, it's GOOD when it's done right. Unfortunately the art of good dressage seems to be less and less common, and seems to be getting less and less competitive against the flashy front-leg-movers that look so impressive but aren't doing much with their back ends.

Just look at the piaffe. The vast majority of grand prix dressage horses do not perform it in the correct manner, sitting back on their hocks and with good cadence and rhythm. Collection is where the training issues really come out. Any horse can trot on the spot (Mum had a downhill QH that could), but it takes real correct training to get a true piaffe.

But this thread is not the place for a debate about the whys and wherefores of the top levels of dressage, and as a rider, I'm not qualified to really comment, as I do not enjoy riding dressage. I do watch a lot of it, so as a spectator and a critic, I can speak of uncomfortable-looking horses that are not performing the movements correctly, but as a rider, I can't say I could do any better.

I would start a thread, but it's late, and I'm not the most qualified person in this thread to start such a discussion.
I agree with you.
     
    04-07-2012, 02:26 PM
  #26
Trained
Thankfully we seem to have people who practice good dressage more than the other kind here on HF! I was quite pleased when the FEI outlawed rollkur, even though there are a lot of people who think they allow it under a different name (LDR is not rollkur as there is no force involved, but it looks quite similar). I just don't think that dressage judges should be rewarding the front-leg-movers with good scores over the less flashy but more correct horses that are older and have been trained properly from the very beginning. It takes a lot more work to bring a horse on properly, and it's only right that that hard work should be recognised, but all too often it isn't.

The funniest thing I ever saw was a comment from a respected dressage judge that was something along the lines of, she didn't like baroque type horses because they were "all just leg movers and do nothing with their hind", when she was awarding 8's and 9's to the same thing from a warmblood.

But, shall we now move this to another thread so we don't completely swamp this one?
     
    04-08-2012, 02:12 PM
  #27
Weanling
I do agree he is not the dressage type of horse. To me, he does not look lame. He has more of a hard movement when he walks in his back legs but that seems to be in Walkers, SaddleBreds, etc because they are built different than other horses.

He is very sweet and looks very willing :)
     

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