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Extended trot...

This is a discussion on Extended trot... within the Horse Riding Critique forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        11-07-2008, 03:41 PM
      #31
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JillyBean    
    Hm. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. You can't compare the evenness of the legs and how parallel they are in the first two pictures to the last picture. Again, because they are in different points in the stride, the could be (and probably ARE) moving very similarly. The third horse, may move the same as the other, but because he's in the down swing the stride, where his legs are moving down toward the ground, his legs are parallel, so they can strike the ground evenly. The other two pics however, the horses are in the UP swing of the stride where their legs are moving UP, away from the ground. Their legs are going to create different lines just because of how the horse is built. The legs can't lift as high in the back due to there being horse above them, but in the front, there is much more room for a lifted leg as long as the horse has a swinging, mobile shoulder. Plus, the legs will never be stick-straight all the time, no matter how good of a mover the horse is. The lines of the legs are going to differ.

    Another thing I wanted to mention is that you are measuring two very different parts of the horse's legs. If you want consistent measurements of how much the legs are parallel to each other, then you shoulder measure the lower half of the limb. So make the lines even with the cannon bones on both the front and the hind legs. The forearm is going to be at a severely different angle from the hind legs at this point in the stride because the leg has to be bent in order to lift the leg, so comparing hind cannons to forearms is not going to be an accurate measure.

    If you don't believe me, look at this video:
    YouTube - Warmblood Stallion Extended Trot ridden by Steffan Peters

    If you pause in that video periodically throughout the extended trots, you will see many different phases of the trots, including two that look very similar to all three of the pics that you posted, plus several others.

    Hope you don't take this post the wrong way, I'm just throwing this out there for discussion!
    Agreed completely. You cannot judge it by the photos that you posted, because it really depends in which segment of the stride the picture was taken to begin with.
    I would actually argue that the 1st picture COULD be the nicest of the three if the picture had been taken a full second later. He's got the freest shoulder. He's got lovely power from behind. He's also got the longest stride of the three, so more to coordinate On the other hand, in the second picture, its taken probably a split second right before he was actually in full extension, so he looks as if there's little to no push from behind when there probably in fact is.
    The third horse is actually closed in and has no place to really go with his extended trot. His legs might be better positioned, but in actually, the body of the first horse is closer to the ideal, because he's stretching upwards

    You can't compare the photos with any degree of accuracy. They arent in the same positioning of footfalls. It's like asking a person to judge a flying lead change just in that first moment versus in a moment where all 4 legs might be off the ground.
    Be interesting to see video clips of these horses and see how they went
         
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        11-10-2008, 11:04 PM
      #32
    Foal
    I prefer number 3.
         
        11-12-2008, 04:22 PM
      #33
    Yearling
    I agree that you can't compare the horse's because their strides are not all together.
    However, you CAN look at other things.
    First picture--horse is broken at the third vertebra, therefore the poll is not the highest point--probably because he is trained BTV. His head is behind the vertical. If you draw a line from the base of the neck (The starting point of the thoracic spine) to the point of the hip where the pelvis meets the spine, he is, again, slightly down hill, when he should be AT LEAST even or better yet, uphill. He isn't horrible, however.

    Second: I really dislike this horse. He looks angry, his haunches are high in the air, if you draw the line again he is downhill, and he has the classic 'massive shoulders' of todays incorrectly trained dressage horses. Broken at the 3, or maybe 4th vertebra, and behind the vertical. The head shouldn't be pulled under the poll--the horse should raise the poll over the nose. Looks like the same thing, but they are achieved two VERY different ways.

    Last horse: Way behind the vertical, which I'm not a fan of, and the curb is being used too strongly for the particular maneuver. If you draw the line he is even, so he is at the second level of training, out of three. I like his body the best, but because of the BTV, it looks like his chest is starting to sink--which means the haunches will come up.

    I don't really like any of them. :) I hate BTV.
    If you want to learn about classical dressage, I know a few REALLY good websites with diagrams that I think you'd love... you know, REAL classical dressage, not competitive dressage with a classical name. You'll probably like French Classical (Yay Phillippe Karl!), as I do. He's a brilliant man.

    Competitive dressage has gone down the crapper.
         
        11-16-2008, 04:58 PM
      #34
    Foal
    I would say the 3rd picture.
    The first and second are absolutely not an extended trot. The hindlegs are not stretching enough. Looks nice, but it not the right way. Extended trot is not just about the front, hindlegs are important too.
         

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