Hunter/Jumper prospect critique. *VIDEO* - Page 2
   

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Hunter/Jumper prospect critique. *VIDEO*

This is a discussion on Hunter/Jumper prospect critique. *VIDEO* within the Horse Riding Critique forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        10-21-2010, 11:42 AM
      #11
    Foal
    Thank you to those who posted positive comments.

    I am very confident in my trainer and his methods, as I have seen him start and finish green horses in H/J expecially OTTB. He is well known in my area and I would not have chosen him to work with my horse if I did not trust in his methods, trust me I did my research.

    LIke I said this little guy is green so not everything he does is going to be "perfect" he is still in training.

    As for the outdoor arena fence which I am assuming is what you are referring to when you say "stopping" at the fence. When you trot a crossrail you are always suppose to stop straight after it, at least that's what I was always taught when training a green horse. Turn around, repeat. There are many different exercising that we do with Jazz, and after seeing my trainers finished horses there is no doubt in my mind that he doesn't know what he is doing. Right now I ride his personal horses while my horse is in training and I have never once had a refusal, not one, and he trained them all.

    With that said, I would like to thank the few who posted positive comments on my thread. As you can see I am new to this forum and didn't expect the less than friendly welcome that I recieved. Guess you can say I was raised a little differently. Constructive critisism would have been a lot nicer than some of the other posts I read. If you see something you don't like or something that YOU think is going to ruin my horse, why not add a polite comment on what your training methods are and how YOU use them?

    Also in case you missed it there are TWO videos in my OP, and yes one of them is gymnastics, please read my entire OP.

    Any other comments on my prospect would be great. We plan to do local NTHJC and A shows. :)
         
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        10-21-2010, 11:48 AM
      #12
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ErikaLynn    
    But he's a thoroughbred right off the track..I know thoroughbreds that don't take off on the flat at all, but as soon as they start jumping then they get excited and take off after the jump. And it's not like the fence is 2 strides after the jump...he has time to canter. She didn't pull on his face to make him stop, and she wasn't angry about it...all she did was stop and turn around.

    And 90% of riders keep their leg on a horse...especially while jumping...so why would someone train a horse to get really fast by a little bit of leg pressure? The horse especially an OTTB needs to get used to leg pressure. As most racehorses are used to no legs at all.

    Everyone has their own training methods. You think that this person's method is not effective, but I do. To each his own.
    A one rein stop is more effective then driving a horse into a fence. Driving a horse into a fence is especially risky because I know from experience that bolder, or just stupider, horses at times will take the risk and leap. I've seen a rider leave a lesson unconscious and strapped to a backboard because her horse jumped her out of the tack and she couldn't get her reins back in time before he decided to try leaping the fence at the end. He caught the top rail and went crashing to the ground. Putting it lightly, she was 8 months before she was back in the saddle. So no, I have to strongly advocate against driving a horse into a fence.

    And yes, the horse must get used to pressure from the leg. However indicating with leg pressure that the horse is to increase or at least maintain constant speed, then driving him into a fence, is not only confusing but pointless. He's obviously a willing jumper so it's only a matter of time with consistent use of this method that he either tries so desperately to please that he leaps the fence or he shuts down completely. Also interesting to note is that he approaches the jump and canters away with a nice rhythm for a greenie, but after hollowing out at the fence and throwing his head in the air, his return approach is not as nice as his first getaway (I do not compare his first approach as it was a hard angle to understand). So I don't believe that this is an effective way to make a quality hunter or jumper, and having seen OTTBs retrained myself, I would encourage the pursuit of a different training method. The horse has a LOT of potential and is happy to please so I'd hate to see him thrown off track because of a simple deviation in normal training.
         
        10-21-2010, 11:48 AM
      #13
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kmacdougall    
    Also, in my experience, gymnastics typically involve more then one cross rail. I've often used gymnastics to improve a horses carriage by encouraging them to keep impulsion and pull their knees up to make it through a line of 2-4 jumps or ground poles. So no, what you have here is not a gymnastic, it's a cross rail.

    Why not establish a good working canter on a 30m circle, have him balanced rhythmically and with a good forward impulsion, then keep him straight off the circle at one point, canter him calmly over the jump, regain a good canter on a circle again, and bring him back down to trot.

    Watch the video for yourself, driving him into the fence did nothing but make him annoyed.
    Did you read my OP? There is infact a video of a grid.

    Cantering a green horse over any form of fence teaches him to rush. We are trying to avoid rushing which is why we trot. Any person who has ever trained a green horse in H/J will tell you that.
         
        10-21-2010, 11:55 AM
      #14
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CinnamonBoots    
    Thank you to those who posted positive comments.

    I am very confident in my trainer and his methods, as I have seen him start and finish green horses in H/J expecially OTTB. He is well known in my area and I would not have chosen him to work with my horse if I did not trust in his methods, trust me I did my research.

    LIke I said this little guy is green so not everything he does is going to be "perfect" he is still in training.

    As for the outdoor arena fence which I am assuming is what you are referring to when you say "stopping" at the fence. When you trot a crossrail you are always suppose to stop straight after it, at least that's what I was always taught when training a green horse. Turn around, repeat. There are many different exercising that we do with Jazz, and after seeing my trainers finished horses there is no doubt in my mind that he doesn't know what he is doing. Right now I ride his personal horses while my horse is in training and I have never once had a refusal, not one, and he trained them all.

    With that said, I would like to thank the few who posted positive comments on my thread. As you can see I am new to this forum and didn't expect the less than friendly welcome that I recieved. Guess you can say I was raised a little differently. Constructive critisism would have been a lot nicer than some of the other posts I read. If you see something you don't like or something that YOU think is going to ruin my horse, why not add a polite comment on what your training methods are and how YOU use them?

    Also in case you missed it there are TWO videos in my OP, and yes one of them is gymnastics, please read my entire OP.

    Any other comments on my prospect would be great. We plan to do local NTHJC and A shows. :)
    OP, you commented while I was commenting. First of all, I simply intended to show you that there are other, potentially better for your situation ways of training. Potentially being the key word in that sentence. I did it in a way that was not rude, so if you can find an instance of me being rude I'd like to see it please. What I wrote I stated in a way that was meant to be the least abrasive, but I did not come across as rude.

    Also, I have commented on the training methods. You can read my views in the post above. I have given you straight, informative information, I do not see how this is a "less than friendly" welcome. This is a forum for sharing knowledge. And knowledge I have shared.
         
        10-21-2010, 11:55 AM
      #15
    Yearling
    I just watched the gymnastics video (didn't notice the first time around) and I think he is definitely going to be a really nice jumper. I can for sure see him doing jumpers rather than hunters. Can I have him?
         
        10-21-2010, 11:59 AM
      #16
    Foal
    ^^^^
    Thanks! We have a lot of faith in this guy and hope that he takes me far in the show ring! I will let you take over his monthly bill? Hows that? Then at least that way you can feel like you own part of him! Lol.
         
        10-21-2010, 12:05 PM
      #17
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CinnamonBoots    
    ^^^^
    Thanks! We have a lot of faith in this guy and hope that he takes me far in the show ring! I will let you take over his monthly bill? Hows that? Then at least that way you can feel like you own part of him! Lol.

    HAHAHA, Thanks, but I think I'll pass on that offer.
         
        10-21-2010, 12:15 PM
      #18
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kmacdougall    
    A one rein stop is more effective then driving a horse into a fence. Driving a horse into a fence is especially risky because I know from experience that bolder, or just stupider, horses at times will take the risk and leap. I've seen a rider leave a lesson unconscious and strapped to a backboard because her horse jumped her out of the tack and she couldn't get her reins back in time before he decided to try leaping the fence at the end. He caught the top rail and went crashing to the ground. Putting it lightly, she was 8 months before she was back in the saddle. So no, I have to strongly advocate against driving a horse into a fence.

    And yes, the horse must get used to pressure from the leg. However indicating with leg pressure that the horse is to increase or at least maintain constant speed, then driving him into a fence, is not only confusing but pointless. He's obviously a willing jumper so it's only a matter of time with consistent use of this method that he either tries so desperately to please that he leaps the fence or he shuts down completely. Also interesting to note is that he approaches the jump and canters away with a nice rhythm for a greenie, but after hollowing out at the fence and throwing his head in the air, his return approach is not as nice as his first getaway (I do not compare his first approach as it was a hard angle to understand). So I don't believe that this is an effective way to make a quality hunter or jumper, and having seen OTTBs retrained myself, I would encourage the pursuit of a different training method. The horse has a LOT of potential and is happy to please so I'd hate to see him thrown off track because of a simple deviation in normal training.
    I don't think she intentionally drove him into the fence. He has a very light mouth and rides in a snaffle, but he doesn't stop on a dime like some horses. He has done this to me before too. I try and stop him before the fence and he makes an effort to not stop until the fence. Its not a reocurring offence for him. I have two videos posted.
         
        10-21-2010, 12:21 PM
      #19
    Banned
    I find this horse lovely. :) You two loook good I watched both videos and I don't see what another member saw. I do think how ever the information she gave would be helpful.
    If you like your trainer that your choice don't worry what others say :)

    Welcome to the forums by the way.
         
        10-21-2010, 12:26 PM
      #20
    Foal
    CinnamonBoots, why are you getting so defensive? Different trainers have different methods and you chose one that has a different style of training than some others. You asked for a critique and you got responses on what has worked in other people's situations. I have retrained 6 OTTB (3 for Hunters, 3 for Eventing) and I personally would never make a horse stop after a fence. This associates them stopping when they see a rail and those rails will be present during shows. In Jumpers you will have some very tight turns right after a jump so what I always do is circle after a jump before stopping. That way after a jump, my horses are always waiting for my cue on which way to turn. Circling also helps them slow down.

    I am only saying this because I feel as if the method of running into a fence not only teaches them to associate an arena fence with stopping, but it also can be dangerous. There are some horses who will think "I just jumped, now I'm being pointed towards this rail- it's kind of high, but it's what she seems to want so I guess I'll try and jump it"!

    I am not trying to knock you or your trainer, I'm telling you what's worked for me and what will make the most sense to your horse.
         

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