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Hunters playing Jumpers

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        07-19-2013, 08:46 PM
      #1
    Foal
    Hunters playing Jumpers

    So Gershwin and I have been struggling in the Hunter ring, mainly I keep choking so while away at a horse show we decided to play around in the jumper ring (Never done jumpers before neither me nor him.) To see what my issue was, could it be I just get to stressed out in the hunter ring worrying about being perfect? Well in the jumper ring my only thought really was to keep the jails up and it seemed to work while we weren't perfect we still ended up with 3rd out of 18 riders. What do you guys think?


         
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        07-19-2013, 09:28 PM
      #2
    Banned
    Cutie. I don't know why you're choking in hunters... Judge is looking at your HORSE not you. Most choke in eq. I'm totally fine in hunters or eq, I'm not a huge jumper girl yet, but I'm hoping to do some HITS Ocala stuff this coming year. I'm the eq diva, but I think if you do poorly in hunters then do what you love. And are good at.
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        07-20-2013, 08:42 PM
      #3
    Weanling
    To me it sounds like you're stressing too much in the hunter ring about being perfect. You both look relaxed & tuned in throughout the entire ride. Your jump position looks fine & he looks like an honest jumper. I can't see why you wouldn't do well ;) My advice? I'd stick with the jumper classes for awhile then try a hunter class again. They seem far more enjoyable for you. Then if you do decide to start hunters again hopefully you won't be as stressed.
         
        07-21-2013, 11:27 AM
      #4
    Yearling
    First, while your horse has a lovely jump, he's no hunter. He's strung out, and running to the base of every fence. You got lucky here. The fences are small enough that you can miss and he will carry you. If they were bigger, and required an accurate ride, you'd either pull rails, or end up crashing. I'm a jumper rider... and while I can appreciate hunter folks being burned out on the hunter circuit and moving over... I don't appreciate the idea that you can just run at things and "hope for the best" in the jumper ring. Hunters, Jumpers, Equitation, all of them require a rider that is RIDING and a horse that is LISTENING. Sit up, say whoa, don't lean at your fence, and ride each jump like it's the only jump in the arena and you need to be as accurate as possible to it. You can't just ride to survive.
    showjumperachel likes this.
         
        07-21-2013, 11:52 AM
      #5
    Yearling
    Oxer has a point. The barn owner where I had my very first horse was a former jumper rider and his philosophy, hunter or jumper aside, was get the horse over the fence in any way possible. I never even heard of the concept of collection or getting the hind end under a horse until about 9 years later when I started riding at a barn 1200 miles away at my first duty station :). I had to basically learn to ride all over again, including jump. Up until that point I had never had a formal jumping lesson..I was more or less self-taught on a horse/pony (he was a 14.2 right after getting his feet done and was 14.2 and a bit within a couple of weeks after) who was a little stinker at times but I got the hang of things enough to make a decent showing in the hunter ring..in the mid 80s...wouldn't be able to get away with that now.
         
        07-21-2013, 07:21 PM
      #6
    Foal
    I can certainly understand getting caught up in being perfect in the hunter ring, trying to protect your distances too much and not riding your best, and feeling like there's less pressure in the jumper ring can certainly help with some of that anxiety. However, I'm betting the problems you have in the hunter ring are similar to the problems in that trip. While the little jumpers are more forgiving of the errors you made, they're still there, and need to be addressed before you move forward in either ring - which I'm sure you'll be able to! :) Your pace was inconsistent, which resulted in you missing at some of the jumps. I don't think the problem is your eye, I think you see a decent distance, but your horse is pulling you past it. Since these jumps were small, you were able to get away with it, but like Oxer said, as the jumps go up, you will need to become more accurate. You had a lucky rub at the in of the combination by your camera person, even over these little jumps, because of the distance in.

    For either ring, you should work on improving your horse's adjustability and general ride-ability, so you have more control over his track and pace around the course, and work on maintaining a consistent rhythm in his canter.

    Looking at this trip piece by piece, you start out in a nice canter, at a good pace for the size of jump. Until you get a couple strides away from the first fence, it looks like the start to a lovely hunter trip. About three strides out from the first jump, you can see your horse take over a little. He flattens out a touch and tries to move up to the jump. You made a nice turn and were set up for a great jump - but he pulled you past it and you ended up chipping. This is where you need to be able to adjust his canter and keep a rhythm in your head.

    You get him back pretty well after the first jump, but your turn to the second jump is a little wide and he begins to change his pace again - resulting in that slightly long distance. That was definitely the only option you had there and it worked out pretty well, but this is a place in the trip where being able to be more accurate in your riding, in being able to dictate track and pace, will help you, in the both the hunters and jumpers. He gets quick up that line and pulls you right to the base of the fence. Here is where you can see that he needs to improve his adjustability - I can see that you were trying to rate him, but he wasn't really taking your input!

    He's a touch over the pace for what I'd want for a 2'6 hunter trip after that line (although I don't think it's excessive in the jumpers, where you are), but he stays in that same, forward canter and lets you ride to a great distance to the sailboats. He doesn't change his pace too badly to the blue to yellow combination, but your turn could have been a little more efficient, so you could leave that last stride out and avoid that rub - it stayed up this time, but on shallower cups or a bigger fence, it may not! That deep distance didn't take you quite as far into the line as you needed to be, so you have a long distance out. That's another place where his adjustability comes into play - if you could get him to gently move up earlier in that combination, you would have found the out a little more easily.

    You can really see him taking over a couple strides before the next two fences. He didn't look like the longer distance over the out of the blue-to-yellow combination lit him up too much, but then you find a bit of a forward, flowing distance to the next fence, and he really takes over up that long stretch to the dark oxer. Again, I can see where you're trying to rate him - and where he's resisting by bracing and raising his head. You caught a bit of a winger over the dark oxer, because you gave up on your distance a little. You saw a better one than he did! But I think because he didn't respond to you when you asked him to slow down, you said "okay, we can try it your way" and he decided to go for that Hail Mary.

    You find the last two jumps quite well, but you can see your horse fighting with you. He's a little more lit up by that stage and is dragging you through the end of the course. You're seeing great distances out of that forward canter, you just need to get him to listen to your input a little better. :)

    Overall, I think you have some great moments in there, and some areas for improvement (don't we all!). You might find that you're happier working on those things in the jumper ring, where you feel less pressured, before you move back to the hunters. Or you might decide you love the jumpers - and with a more adjustable, ride-able horse I'm sure you could be successful in either ring!
    WriteStuff and Oxer like this.
         
        07-22-2013, 01:04 AM
      #7
    Foal
    Just wanted to say I'm not meaning to step on anyone's toes by saying we wanted to play in the jumper ring my trainer just wanted to see if the reason I choke was due to judge or me being afraid of my horse.

    In my horse's defense he isn't used to being in a stall for days in a row and due to him being slightly off the first two days (banged himself good in the trailer.) When he was sound we threw him into some jumper classes so the six hour trip wasn't pointless since we had missed out EQ and Hunter classes. He was so strong that day that my shoulders were so tired I wish we had video the next day when we went into a higher class he doesn't always respect the lower and so we sometimes throw a higher class in there because all of a sudden he realizes he does need to listen to me. The second day he also was willing to listen a lot better at the 3ft and while we didn't do well because I'm in such EQ mode I made beautiful big roll backs the best we ever had.

    My trainer does teach to use the whole horse not just hand and engaging the hind end and we are 100% against running horses in the jumper ring to us it looks sloppy and those that win by running a horse only are getting lucky. I know I was lucky in the video, but if the fences were higher he would have been a different horse and if I had a chance to lunge him before I went into the ring he would have been so much more adjustable.( to busy helping kids with their ponies to work him before my class other then our quick warm up before the class.) This is his second year jumping this time last year I was to afraid to even jump him over a ground poll. He came to us with so many problems as someone let him be their pet for ten years and he was borderline dangerous he would run people down, get out of his field and go threw anything. He has climbed mountings, before anyone says we might have moved him up to fast that isn't true we listen to the horse he told us when the lower fences were to low for him so we moved him up.

    I maybe worded it wrong, but I'm sorry I rode my butt off in this video I wasn't just sitting there and telling him to figure it out and hoping I survived that's not what I was doing at all. I don't appreciate someone implying that I wasn't riding because I was this is NOT and easy horse to ride. If you listen in the video I was talking him telling him easy the girl filming even comments, "I hope we get her on this." Everyone could hear my trying to slow him. What I meant when I said it didn't matter was in the hunter ring when I make a mistake I stress out and everything went down hill when I was in the jumper ring when a mistake happened my thought was 'well that sucked lets make the next better.' I know I shouldn't be riding a horse as green as him, but that's all I have the money for I can't afford a made jumper that can teach me everything.
         
        07-22-2013, 03:56 AM
      #8
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daddyspaycheck    
    Just wanted to say I'm not meaning to step on anyone's toes by saying we wanted to play in the jumper ring my trainer just wanted to see if the reason I choke was due to judge or me being afraid of my horse.

    In my horse's defense he isn't used to being in a stall for days in a row and due to him being slightly off the first two days (banged himself good in the trailer.) When he was sound we threw him into some jumper classes so the six hour trip wasn't pointless since we had missed out EQ and Hunter classes. He was so strong that day that my shoulders were so tired I wish we had video the next day when we went into a higher class he doesn't always respect the lower and so we sometimes throw a higher class in there because all of a sudden he realizes he does need to listen to me. The second day he also was willing to listen a lot better at the 3ft and while we didn't do well because I'm in such EQ mode I made beautiful big roll backs the best we ever had.

    My trainer does teach to use the whole horse not just hand and engaging the hind end and we are 100% against running horses in the jumper ring to us it looks sloppy and those that win by running a horse only are getting lucky. I know I was lucky in the video, but if the fences were higher he would have been a different horse and if I had a chance to lunge him before I went into the ring he would have been so much more adjustable.( to busy helping kids with their ponies to work him before my class other then our quick warm up before the class.) This is his second year jumping this time last year I was to afraid to even jump him over a ground poll. He came to us with so many problems as someone let him be their pet for ten years and he was borderline dangerous he would run people down, get out of his field and go threw anything. He has climbed mountings, before anyone says we might have moved him up to fast that isn't true we listen to the horse he told us when the lower fences were to low for him so we moved him up.

    I maybe worded it wrong, but I'm sorry I rode my butt off in this video I wasn't just sitting there and telling him to figure it out and hoping I survived that's not what I was doing at all. I don't appreciate someone implying that I wasn't riding because I was this is NOT and easy horse to ride. If you listen in the video I was talking him telling him easy the girl filming even comments, "I hope we get her on this." Everyone could hear my trying to slow him. What I meant when I said it didn't matter was in the hunter ring when I make a mistake I stress out and everything went down hill when I was in the jumper ring when a mistake happened my thought was 'well that sucked lets make the next better.' I know I shouldn't be riding a horse as green as him, but that's all I have the money for I can't afford a made jumper that can teach me everything.
    I agree with what the other's have said. Your round started out pretty good, but then you could see the horse getting stronger, not being corrected efficiently (not saying you didn't try, just implying he needs more work on those issues) and everything starting to go downhill.

    I started out doing hunters with my pony who did hunters all her life and was a lesson pony with many show miles on her when I bought her, so I lucked out with her. We never did any of the big circuits, but just schooling shows for fun and I always did well in the eq classes. We (especially her) could have done well in the circuits though. When I bought my first TB, he wasn't trained for hunters or jumpers, but I tried to do hunters (schooling shows) with him, and while he did okay, he was never a "hunter" and would have looked silly in any hunter show other than a schooling show. I never did jumpers with him, but started training in eventing with him. We did a few clinics and a derby before he got injured and was retired.

    Also, I can appreciate the work it takes to ride a stronger horse and one that makes your shoulders sore after a ride. My OTTB was like that for a long time off and on when he first came off the track. We changed bits and that helped a lot, but he still (though much more rarely) tries to become a ball of energy with his body, then be heavy on the bit when I ask for any type of bend or suppleness. His contact and moving forward has improved TONS, which has helped with his tendency to do this nasty habit.-- I am speaking of only flat work at the moment, as that is 99.99% of what we do right now. I have started him over fences, but HE is in hunter mode right now... which I am glad about, since his left canter on the flat is still a work in progress, in terms of realizing it's a canter and not want-to-be gallop free for all.

    It sounds like you have made huge progress with him this far, so I would not be too worried. Just keep working on it, and work on your jumper rounds at home to perfect his responsiveness and your control. Jumpers IS about speed, but it's also about control, being careful, and still being an effective team.

    I look forward to updates!
         
        07-22-2013, 09:44 AM
      #9
    Foal
    I'm not sure who's post you were responding to, but just wanted to make sure you know that I can absolutely see you riding and trying to rate your horse in your video. My reply was so long-winded, maybe some of what I was trying to convey got lost!

    Like I said before, you have some really good moments in your video, as well as some things to work on. Everyone has things to work on and saying that your horse is getting strong and pulling you doesn't mean he's a bad horse, it means he's green! Since you said this is just his second year showing over fences, I'd expect him to be green. Making you aware of what areas you have to improve on should hopefully make it easier for you to address those in your training, not to make you feel bad!

    Good luck with your horse, I'm sure you guys will keep improving and getting even better. :)
         
        07-25-2013, 01:38 AM
      #10
    Foal
    One thing I noticed is that you really jump down to your horse's neck, rather than waiting for him to close your hip angle. I think maybe if you kept your shoulders back slightly and didn't lean on his neck so much as you were going over the jump...that may help with the speed issue. Just a thought :)
         

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