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My Craptacularly Crippled Cayuse

This is a discussion on My Craptacularly Crippled Cayuse within the Horse Riding Critique forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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        08-22-2011, 12:52 PM
      #91
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    And since when is "refined" the be-all and end-all of equine quality?

    Last time I checked, Appaloosas were actually known to not be refined....a hallmark of their heritage that has nothing to do with their usefulness.

    Not everyone breeds for "pretty."
    Soundness, trainability, and athleticism go much, much further in my book.

    You especially don't ride a head, and there's nothing so horrendously wrong with his neck that would interfere with the disciplines he was bred for (particularly since some of the muscling could be addressed with proper riding/training).

    Not every horse needs to move (or should move) in a high-stepping, floaty way.
    That's good for show and flash but not so good for actual using horses.

    As I recall, he was only bred six times, and all of his offspring that I saw were very nicely conformed with good minds and good trainability. Unfortunately, they were in the same ownership situation,
    So aside from basic breaking most of them never got much riding,
    And they were allowed to get so obese that it really affected their movement and soundness.
    The one son, my favorite, was purchased by the same people who took the stallion.
    They started him at first to be a Civil War reenactment horse, and he was already in his first battle (and did quite well, by all accounts).
    Now, instead, though, they say that he's too nice for that sort of work, and they're pushing him to start USEF showjumping.
    He's quite a nice horse--again, with time and room,
    I would have taken him, too, and done dressage and jumping!
    Anyone considering breeding a stallion should 'prove' them with some kind of show record.
    They can claim anything, the proof is in the pudding, RIGHT?

    This guy has been a 'pasture stud',.., COMPLETELY UNPROVEN, other than your opinion.

    My opinion, he's coarse and unrefined,...,
    I'm not impressed!
    And given that he's had NO actual use beyond standing in a pasture,
    How well can anyone say that he held up well under USE??
    According to you, he hasn't actually done anything to prove that statement.

    I don't have to like him because you do,..., and I've stated WHY I don't like him.
    He's unproven, unused, basically his whole life, and coarse looking.
    I complimented his legs, and he is proportioned well in 1/3rds.
    Other than that, I'm not seeing, or hearing, it.

    He isn't your stallion, so it shouldn't bother you, so personally,
    What I think of him??
         
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        08-22-2011, 01:13 PM
      #92
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WhoaNow    
    Anyone considering breeding a stallion should 'prove' them with some kind of show record.
    They can claim anything, the proof is in the pudding, RIGHT?
    Wrong. Not everyone who owns a stud needs to show - not everyone even likes to show. If I had a nicely conformed stallion that had the temperament I liked, and I found to be very useful working cows or even trail riding, I might breed him under the right circumstances. I haven't shown in over 30 years and I don't miss it one bit. That certainly doesn't mean that I couldn't own a stud that would make a wonderful breeding animal.

    The rest of your post was your opinion and nothing more.
    NdAppy, Allison Finch and MsBHavin like this.
         
        08-22-2011, 01:24 PM
      #93
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iridehorses    
    Wrong. Not everyone who owns a stud needs to show - not everyone even likes to show.
    If I had a nicely conformed stallion that had the temperament I liked,
    And I found to be very useful working cows or even trail riding,
    I might breed him under the right circumstances. I haven't shown in over 30 years and I don't miss it one bit.
    That certainly doesn't mean that I couldn't own a stud that would make a wonderful breeding animal.

    The rest of your post was your opinion and nothing more
    .
    I believe I'm entitled to have an opinion here.
    This forum, much like EVERY other horse forum, is full of people with their opinions.

    And since I don't actually EVER have ANY intentions of owning,
    Nor breeding, nor showing a stallion,
    Its really inconsequential to me personally,....,

    But, the 'rumor mill' has pounded into my head, as well a few others (heads)
    That if you choose to own a stallion, that it should be 'proven'.

    I look for certain 'specifics' when I horse shop, and a part of it is lineage.
    I happen to be a QH fan, and an 'Investor' fan, because I find those horses to have a great 'work ethic' and are highly trainable, and GENTLE.
         
        08-22-2011, 01:41 PM
      #94
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WhoaNow    
    I believe I'm entitled to have an opinion here.
    This forum, much like EVERY other horse forum, is full of people with their opinions.

    And since I don't actually EVER have ANY intentions of owning,
    Nor breeding, nor showing a stallion,
    Its really inconsequential to me personally,....,
    Of course - and it's just that that, there was no point in discussing it.
         
        08-22-2011, 02:10 PM
      #95
    Banned
    When did I ever say I was offended by your opinion? Your ideas of "ideal" conformation are, well, let's just say not exactly supported by the majority of educated, experienced horsepeople, but of course you can believe--and say--whatever you want. Nor did I say that I justified breeding this stallion, save for the fact, in this case, he did actually prove himself through his production. Test breedings and the like are not something I approve of, but in this case, luckily, it all worked out for the best, with all foals being ahead of the curve in general horse quality and useability.

    There are plenty of ways to prove a stallion, and the show ring is not the only (nor the best, nor the most accurate) means of doing so. I do think studs should be broke to ride, trained in some sort of discipline, and taken to some sort of level for outside opinions and assessment, whatever that may entail. They must show good conformation, athleticism, temperament, and above all, soundness. They must produce well, or else it doesn't matter the quality of the individual. Now, in Libra's case, it's too late to know the woulda coulda shouldas. This is not the way I would go about breeding a stallion. But then again, his owners had been breeding for 40 years, and producing great foal crops--there wasn't a bad horse on the place; they'd just fallen into a bad situation in the latter years and never got a chance to live up to their potential. I'm not condoning what they did. But they produced good horses. Anyone who disagrees with that is simply a poor judge of horseflesh.
         
        08-22-2011, 02:19 PM
      #96
    Foal
    I have a stallion I don't show, he works on the farm here, he can do barrels, he's an amazing trail horse, pastures with geldings, only acts like a stud when a chain is over his nose (breeding time), cuts cattle here for us when we needa separate em, ride likes a dream, easy keeper... I have one of his babies, built like a bull, amazingly gentle, handles well... Not spooky.. & the people who had this horse before me said all of his babies were like that. I ride him in a bosal or a full cheek snaffle, my non riding bf can ride him. He's only 5, so if I do decide to show him I could- which would most likely be just fun shows (barrels, poles & such) bc I play with him doing that all the time. Would I breed him? If I came across a match I want, absolutely. I've had two people I know ask to breed to him in the spring. Will I geld him? Probably not, I see no reason too. He an absolute gentlemen. I ow most ppl on this site disagree with that, but what we have works for us. He's my big babi & I've always ha a soft heart for studs.
    Btw, I have a gray mare bubba... && she's got attitude just like yours, I love her though, she makes me laugh ;)
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        08-22-2011, 02:26 PM
      #97
    Green Broke
    Personally I am not hugely impressed by Bubba's Appy Stud. That being said, there is no rule we must agree. Watching the video he does not travel straight in front (paddles). He has puffy ankles for whatever reason. All that being said, I will also say he is a useful sort of horse that might not be great in the show ring. That would not preclude himfrom being a stud when crossed with the right sort of mare (like Bones).

    The business of breeding to proven stallions for things other than racing is a relatively recent phenomena. A LOT of ranches bred their own. Some bred selectively and others not so much. It is out of this that the Quarterhorse came.. and there was some Spanish Barb in there from feral horses.

    A good horse is a good horse. You can see it or not. In the case of the Appy Stud I can see he is a good horse.

    In more modern times the economy has a great impact on the business of horses. We no longer (typically) use horses for meaningful work. The first time I saw ATV's rounding up cattle I felt the useful horse was hitting the skids and I was sad. I see good horses going for free or close to it simply because they are plain looking (no chrome, chestnut, mares.. for instance).

    That being said, a good horse is STILL a good horse and that is not always determined by the show ring.
         
        08-22-2011, 02:37 PM
      #98
    Banned
    I forgot to address the puffy ankles thing earlier. It's really not "puff," as in swelling. That's actually his native conformation. (Edit: Some of the roundness on the front--it wasn't soft, though I wonder if it shows some irritation from always running the fence line. The rest of the joint's largeness, I believe, was due simply to having "big bones.")
    There were a lot on that farm that way. Not too sure what was up with that, but it didn't seem to affect their flexibility or soundness. I think that picture also makes it look more exaggerated than it actually was. This one is unflattering for his neck, but perhaps shows a better view of his legs in motion:



    One of his sons:





    Another son (here's the gross obesity I was talking about):



    Two daughters:



         
        08-22-2011, 02:49 PM
      #99
    Green Broke
    I see what you mean. One thing I can say is that the breeder has their own "look" and not every breeder is good enough to get that. IOW's they all have the same over all useful look.. and yup.. the same sort of fetlock joints.

    Very much a "type" of horse and very much a signature on each which is not a bad thing.

    You are correct on the obesity.. looks like they are getting a Double Size Happy Meal 3X a day and then spending the rest of their time on their X Box! LOL.
         
        08-22-2011, 08:04 PM
      #100
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WhoaNow    
    I believe I'm entitled to have an opinion here.
    This forum, much like EVERY other horse forum, is full of people with their opinions.

    And since I don't actually EVER have ANY intentions of owning,
    Nor breeding, nor showing a stallion,
    Its really inconsequential to me personally,....,

    But, the 'rumor mill' has pounded into my head, as well a few others (heads)
    That if you choose to own a stallion, that it should be 'proven'.

    I look for certain 'specifics' when I horse shop, and a part of it is lineage.
    I happen to be a QH fan, and an 'Investor' fan, because I find those horses to have a great 'work ethic' and are highly trainable, and GENTLE.
    Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion - you included. Buyt you don't know anything about Appys, so your opinion - good or bad - has no foundation of expertise or experience. Heck, by your own admission you are a QH person. Appys are not supposed to be refined.

    As to the breeding, again by your own admission you have not and will hnot own a stallion - again your opinion is not based upon experience or expertise.

    As to the "rumor mill", I'm glad you mention where you obtain your "expertse". Every once in a while you do run across a rumor that holds water.

    However, thanks for providing the input - it encouraged Bubba to post pictures of his get. Oh, and by the way, get are the truest measure of a stallion...and that's not a rumor...
    MsBHavin likes this.
         

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