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My Craptacularly Crippled Cayuse

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  • "roman lighting" stallion

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    08-15-2011, 08:21 PM
  #71
Green Broke
Now if we could just ship Bones to Aussie land and have her turned out in the paddock with that boy!

I very very much agree.. this horse is a "horseman's horse." If you look at the photos of the great ones.. Man O War, Secretariat, War Admiral etc. you will see horses of substance. The really good ones do not look like claimers. And claimers look.. well.. like claimers.

When I go to the track (and I am going to Saratoga this Friday), I can usually pick the winner in the post parade for the claiming and lower class races. As the horses move up in class it is much harder to do that. Graded stakes races I can pick the loser but not the winner. Usually can get the first four.. but not in order.. so I don't win money. Boxing four is expensive... (I will box 3 sometimes).

Anyway, I really like a good horse and Lonhro could come and live at my house anytime.
     
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    08-15-2011, 10:04 PM
  #72
Banned
But that's just it. Now, I don't follow mainstream racing in the slightest...but you're getting your Barbaros, and your Eight Belles, and your Big Browns nowadays...





These horses are built for speed, and are winners, but they aren't built to last....
     
    08-16-2011, 08:12 AM
  #73
Green Broke
I started out horses following and learning about the Thoroughbred. I still can look at a pedigree and get a good idea of what that horse is even tho I do not know the modern studs.

Remember too, that both these photos you have here are of young horses. The upper photo appears to be a yearling (a hammer headed yearling at that). If you look at his front end it is realy very good and he has roomy hocks.. but this baby needs to frow and, if he is going to a yearling sale he needs some weight (fat hides things... on ppl too!!). If the horse is racing at the time of this photo it appears he is being 'brought up."

The lower photo is of a horse in racing form.. and while fat and letting down won't change his steep croup (which may be steeper due to the water being cool) or his set back somewhat straight hind leg (this started to become a Thoroughbred conformation trend when I was a teenager.. it seems to have carried forward).

Scretariat was a horsemans horse and his racing photos show him leggy. His breeding farm photos he is too fat (but note he has the same throatlatch as our black horse, Lonhro and the same throatlatchon Man O War.. so there may be some truth to the airway passage theory).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg th_SECRETARIAT.jpg (5.0 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg secretariatcom_2170_30109215.jpg (61.2 KB, 91 views)
     
    08-17-2011, 10:25 PM
  #74
Banned
Yes, the horses I posted are built overall quite well--built to fly--and they were champions. Yet, if you look at the first one, or if I did and knew nothing about it, say being asked to give a conformation critique for a potential purchase....I might just hone in on front legs and question their strength. Yes, it's a young horse, but still the bones are long, lanky, and fine, and the pasterns seem somewhat weaker than I'd like. The first horse is Eight Belles.

The second horse is Big Brown. Unless it's his coloration, or an optical illusion, you can see the glue holding his front feet together....
     
    08-18-2011, 10:30 AM
  #75
Green Broke
Oh yes... Feet on the Thoroughbred are an issue. I used to shoe my own horses and then I got Holly (Angela's Holiday by Roman Lighting out of Lucky Angela). Thin hoof walls and flatish soles. Not all thoroughbreds have the flat soles, but she was really hunter jumper breeding (tho I used her on cattle and trained her in dressage.. sent her out for hunter training and after 30 days they sent her home as she just was not interested in jumping.. she did it but...).

When someone is looking at a Thoroughbred to buy or to breed, I tell them to really pay attention to the feet and especially to the quality and thickness of the hoof walls. THINK what you are going to be doing with the horse and THINK about those feet. If you are breeding Thoroughbred to draft or warm blood, the feet will likely improve. If you are looking for a Grand Prix jumper, you better know there is some hoof wall there and the feet can tolerate that sort of impact (not that racing is without impact!!).

That being said, when racing they wear Aluminum Racing plates that come off and are replaced by steel training plates after they race. So there is a lot of shoe changes that go on, which can be an issue to their feet as well.

Here is an interesting link... with lots of conformation shots of various stallions..
Stallions - Ad Valorem

Some of these were big time winners and it is interesting to look at them. Some seem not built for speed and yet they did it.. but there is more to a race horse than speed.. there is heart and training and (often) something you cannot measure. Which is why it is what it is... :)
     
    08-19-2011, 07:44 PM
  #76
Banned
I keep forgetting to post this guy.



It is very, very hard to find a conformation flaw on his body. That's the sort of stallion who deserves to be a stallion. Pity he didn't have different owners--he could have really been something, shown well, and had some really nice babies. As it was he barely got broke as a youngster, was never handled, and was given away...
     
    08-19-2011, 08:37 PM
  #77
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elana    
I started out horses following and learning about the Thoroughbred.
I still can look at a pedigree and get a good idea of what that horse is even tho I do not know the modern studs.

Remember too, that both these photos you have here are of young horses.
The upper photo appears to be a yearling (a hammer headed yearling at that).
If you look at his front end it is realy very good and he has roomy hocks.. but this baby needs to frow and,
if he is going to a yearling sale he needs some weight (fat hides things... on ppl too!!).
If the horse is racing at the time of this photo it appears he is being 'brought up."

The lower photo is of a horse in racing form.. and while fat and letting down won't change his steep croup (which may be steeper due to the water being cool) or his set back somewhat straight hind leg (this started to become a Thoroughbred conformation trend when I was a teenager.. it seems to have carried forward).

Scretariat was a horsemans horse and his racing photos show him leggy. His breeding farm photos he is too fat (but note he has the same throatlatch as our black horse, Lonhro
And the same throatlatchon Man O War.. so there may be some truth to the airway passage theory).
I also had read somewhere that Secretariet's heart was roughly 1/3 larger than the normal horse heart.
It was believed that part of his ability to run, and win, at such distances, had to do with his ability to pump blood more efficiently.

"Death


In the fall of 1989, Secretariat was afflicted with laminitis, a painful and often incurable hoof condition.
When his condition failed to improve after a month of treatment,
He was euthanized on October 4 at the age of 19.[14]
Popular both as a Triple Crown champion and in retirement, Secretariat was mourned by millions and buried at Claiborne Farm in Paris, Kentucky,
Given the rare honor of being buried whole; usually only the head, heart, and hooves of a winning race horse are buried,
And the rest of the body is cremated.[15]

A necropsy revealed that his heart was significantly larger than that of an ordinary horse.[16]
An extremely large heart is a trait that occasionally occurs in Thoroughbreds, linked to a genetic condition passed down via the dam line,
Known as the "x-factor."[13][17][18][19]
The x-factor can be traced to the historic racehorse Eclipse,
Who was necropsied after his death in 1789.
Because Eclipse's heart appeared to be much larger than other horses, it was weighed, and found to be 14 pounds (6.4 kg),
Over twice the normal weight.
It is believed Eclipse passed the trait on via his daughters, and pedigree research
Verified that Secretariat traces in his dam line to a daughter of Eclipse.[16] In the 20th century,
The heart of Phar Lap was weighed and also documented to be 6.35 kilograms (14.0 lb),[20] or essentially the same size as that of Eclipse.

At the time of Secretariat's death, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy,
Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky,
Did not weigh Secretariat's heart, but stated, "We just stood there in stunned silence.
We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect.
There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."[14]
Later, Swerczek also performed a necropsy on Sham, who died in 1993. Swerczek did weigh Sham's heart,
And it was 18 pounds (8.2 kg).

Based on Sham's measurement, and having necropsied both horses,
He estimated that Secretariat's heart probably weighed 22 pounds
(10.0 kg),[16] or about two-and-a-half times as large as that of the average horse".
     
    08-19-2011, 08:49 PM
  #78
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13    
I keep forgetting to post this guy.



It is very, very hard to find a conformation flaw on his body. That's the sort of stallion who deserves to be a stallion. Pity he didn't have different owners--he could have really been something, shown well, and had some really nice babies. As it was he barely got broke as a youngster, was never handled, and was given away...
I SO wish there was so way to have gotten him, freakin loved that horse, and I still can't believe he's 17-ish in that pic. I truly hope his new owners do *something* with him, what potential...
     
    08-19-2011, 10:35 PM
  #79
Banned
They aren't. He's turned out with a big herd of Quarter Horse stallions. They mentioned they might breed him, but I bet they don't. He'll probably go on to get the same minimums of care he was getting before, which admittedly, never seemed to hurt him any in the past....

See the photo above? His feet had not been trimmed in at least two, probably more like three plus plus plus years. And they really didn't need it.

I actually think that he would have crossed well on Bones....
     
    08-21-2011, 08:54 AM
  #80
Green Broke
I do not know the horse you posted. Who is he and what is his breeding? There are things I do not like so much about him as a stallion (wish he had roomier hocks and a shorter back). As an individual his ankles are puffy which is a bit odd since he has not had much done to him. I do agree that for untrimmed feet his are very very good (and that means way more than most folks would give credit).

He looks like an appy cross? An Appy? Would not mind knowing more about him.
     

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